The Republican Utopia

[funhusker]

11 minutes ago, Clifford Franklin said:

No. No I don't.

 

 

It may be true.  I know I frequently pray more for Trump to not screw things up.  Many people may also be concerned he will find a way to bring an end to the world and are just trying to get right with God

[BigRedBuster]

10 minutes ago, funhusker said:

It may be true.  I know I frequently pray more for Trump to not screw things up.  Many people may also be concerned he will find a way to bring an end to the world and are just trying to get right with God

 

I find myself saying..."Oh my God"...a lot more.

[funhusker]

33 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I find myself saying..."Oh my God"...a lot more.

ha! That too!

[Fru]

 

[TGHusker]

40 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I find myself saying..."Oh my God"...a lot more.

I pray for mercy and grace - that we survive this presidency.

 

Trump says that because he is 'using' religion.  While some of Obama's policies could be taken as ignoring religious interest at best or against religious interest at worse (depending on the issue and the faith perspective making the grievance) Trump has flipped and is using religion to promote his causes.  Unfortunately the gullible religious leaders believe he is listening to their concerns as a true believer. But if the time comes where Trump doesn't need their support, he'll drop them as I think we know at his core, Trump's only religion is praise of himself. 

[funhusker]

17 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

I pray for mercy and grace - that we survive this presidency.

 

Trump says that because he is 'using' religion.  While some of Obama's policies could be taken as ignoring religious interest at best or against religious interest at worse (depending on the issue and the faith perspective making the grievance) Trump has flipped and is using religion to promote his causes.  Unfortunately the gullible religious leaders believe he is listening to their concerns as a true believer. But if the time comes where Trump doesn't need their support, he'll drop them as I think we know at his core, Trump's only religion is praise of himself. 

As an ELCA Lutheran, I feel Trump is far more guilty of this than Obama.

 

I never felt the projects and missions of my church were threatened under Obama.  However, with Trump's stance on refugees, his lack of effort to support poor people, and his disinterest in making medical treatment affordable for all is an assault on what I believe a Christian should stand for.

 

 

[TGHusker]

15 minutes ago, funhusker said:

As an ELCA Lutheran, I feel Trump is far more guilty of this than Obama.

 

I never felt the projects and missions of my church were threatened under Obama.  However, with Trump's stance on refugees, his lack of effort to support poor people, and his disinterest in making medical treatment affordable for all is an assault on what I believe a Christian should stand for.

 

 

Excellent points and not to be ignored.  In other words, he fails the 'Cup in My Name'  category.     And that is a good point to remember about policy in general. Us conservatives can be so focused on budget constraints that we can fail to remember that govt and budgets are created to serve the people and not the other way around.  Esp us Christian conservatives - we should (speaking of myself and not others) consider the plight of the poor and disadvantage in our policies.  A govt or nation that doesn't take care of its own, is worse than an infidel.  Borrowing from Paul's words and his concept of a man taking care of his family.

1Timothy 5:8 (note that is First Timothy not One Timothy - in case Trump is reading this) :

Quote

Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

 

[funhusker]

6 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Excellent points and not to be ignored.  In other words, he fails the 'Cup in My Name'  category.     And that is a good point to remember about policy in general. Us conservatives can be so focused on budget constraints that we can fail to remember that govt and budgets are created to serve the people and not the other way around.  Esp us Christian conservatives - we should (speaking of myself and not others) consider the plight of the poor and disadvantage in our policies.  A govt or nation that doesn't take care of its own, is worse than an infidel.  Borrowing from Paul's words and his concept of a man taking care of his family.

1Timothy 5:8 (note that is First Timothy not One Timothy - in case Trump is reading this) :

 

Amen and hallelujah! 

[Danny Bateman]

More proof Paul Ryan is an exceptional political coward. He wouldn't even ask the chaplain for his resignation himself after he prayed for those affected by  GOP tax bill. He sent his chief of staff to do it. 

 

This apparently ensued:

 

 

It all could have been avoided if Ryan had a spine.

[Making Chimichangas]

 

@TGHusker, as someone of faith, the passage from 1 Timothy you quoted...

 

What is your interpretation on how that passage pertains to parents who disown a child for being gay or transgender?

 

I have thought that it meant that even if it is wrong to be gay (I'm atheist so for the purpose of this question, I'll posit for a moment God exists) it would be a grievous sin and affront to God for a parent to turn their collective backs on their gay/trans kids.

 

What say you?

[BigRedBuster]

11 minutes ago, Making Chimichangas said:

What is your interpretation on how that passage pertains to parents who disown a child for being gay or transgender?

 

I would like to answer this since, as a Christian, I feel very strongly about it.

 

I absolutely, without question, do NOT believe a parent disowning a child for something like this is what Christ taught us in loving and caring about other people.  It absolutely flies in the face of what Christ said and what he did with his actions.

[RedDenver]

4 hours ago, Fru said:

 

The thought process of trying to tell veterans how they should believe should be questioned. That guy can go eff himself.

[Fru]

17 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

The thought process of trying to tell veterans how they should believe should be questioned. That guy can go eff himself.

 

Republicans are the only ones that value military service. That's why they elected a guy who insulted John McCain for being a POW. 

[TGHusker]

1 hour ago, Making Chimichangas said:

 

@TGHusker, as someone of faith, the passage from 1 Timothy you quoted...

 

What is your interpretation on how that passage pertains to parents who disown a child for being gay or transgender?

 

I have thought that it meant that even if it is wrong to be gay (I'm atheist so for the purpose of this question, I'll posit for a moment God exists) it would be a grievous sin and affront to God for a parent to turn their collective backs on their gay/trans kids.

 

What say you?

Chimi, your simple question deserves a thoughtful answer  and I'm going to go out on a big limb and get very personal. So don't cut me off while I'm on the limb:

 

I have to ask "What is God our Father's heart?'  It is and has always been this:  Psalm 27:10  Even if my father and mother abandon me, the LORD will hold me close. (new living translation)

New American standard translation:   For my father and my mother have forsaken me, But the LORD will take me up.
 

  This comes from the OT, where  God is often accused of being mean and vindictive.  However, throughout the OT we see the story of redemption - God chasing after mankind ultimately culminating in the Cross of Christ, His resurrection and His acceptance of us whereby Jesus tells us to address God as "Abba Father" - a very intimate term basically meaning or giving the sense of 'Daddy'.   The only religion that approaches God with such an intimate name.  Too many people reject God or the concept of God because of the relationship or lack thereof that they had with their earthly father.  So much research has shown that bitterness towards God and rejection of Him is a result of strained relationship with our own father - a father who fell far short of the word "Daddy".  We throw on to God,who calls Himself Father (the Lord's prayer begins "Our Father who is in heaven.....") the image of our earthly father.   Thus going back to your original question, parents should not reject their own if they desire to follow the heart of God as revealed in scripture.  They should care for and provide for their own as 1Timothy 5:8 states.  The verse doesn't have a qualifier - care for your own only if.......       We can take this concept deeper as Jesus did.  The rich young ruler who tried to get out of responsibility to take care of his neighbors by 'fulfilling the law' (being religious) was rebuked by Jesus when he was told to give to the poor and to follow Christ.  Jesus reminds us that the 2nd greatest command is to love our neighbors.  So, 1Tim starts with family and the concept is can be taken deeper and applied to 'our neighbors and the "least of these"'.

 

Yes, there may be times for tough love (even in marriages - my wife has had to give me a bunch of that - I'm too dense to learn sometimes!! But I receive it with joy now as I need her input to be a better man - but i digress) but that happens in all relationships and tough love doesn't mean rejection.   But tough love is often associated with a person's thoughtless actions towards another or that person's continued addictive behavior and the one giving tough love responds accordingly.  It may not have any relationship in general to the issue you bring up  - unless a person generally walks over, disrespect and disregards the values of the parent.  If parents are opposed to the gay lifestyle in their home (the actual love making)  and yet the child proceeds with it or generally disregards the parent's wishes - that may be cause for tough love but not rejection.  As a parent, I have certain ground rules in my home and even if my grown sons have different values in their homes, they should and do respect those of mine when in our home.  However, even if my sons have different values - I will still love them in the midst of our difference and not reject them.

 

I can relate to the issue you bring up in  a different way.  You see this can happen in religious homes in which doctrine takes priority over the Father's heart of love.  I was raised as a Catholic (no offense to those who are Catholic - this can happen in any faith)- very strict, alter boy but lived the life no different than anyone else - wild when not playing HS sports.  Then I met the Jesus of the Bible and my pretty filthy life was transformed over night.  My parents appreciated the fact that I no longer drank, swore and made trouble but when they heard I was no longer attending a Catholic Church (when I went away to college) all 'hell' broke out.  I was shunned and rejected.  It was very painful experience.  My life improved but a dirty Catholic boy was preferred to a clean living evangelical.   That experience and the very abusive environment I and my siblings were raised in (verbal, physical) created deep emotional scares in me for years - manifested in my marriage which my gracious wife and I have worked through.   We carry into our marriages the things we haven't dealt wt from our up bringing - (How we leave one place is how we will enter another - we carry the baggage until it is dealt with.  That is why 2nd marriages often fail or running from one job to another doesn't work out).  But the thing besides my wife's patient love to bring me through was knowing that God is 'Abba Father" Daddy.  Someone I can pray to, receive comfort and help at a time of loss.  My folks and I have long since reconciled but it wasn't easy.
 

 

You may ask - does God accept LGBTG people?   We only need to look at the Cross of Christ.  God will accept anyone who comes to Him in faith and wants to know Him as Abba Father. 

I will let God show each person what needs to change in their life.  But perfect living isn't a prerequisite to faith and acceptance - only humility and faith. 

 

Chimi, I hope one day, you too will see the God that I see & know - one who accepts you and loves you as you are and sees the potential of what you can become.  We all have potential to become more than what we are today.  If you have had a bad relationship wt your father, please don't allow that to be reflected on your perception of God.  The first step I had to take was to forgive my parents but also admit my wrong responses to how I was raised - I wasn't responsible for their actions but I was for my responses.  Then the healing began.     I hope this answers your question sufficiently.  

[RedDenver]

21 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Chimi, your simple question deserves a thoughtful answer  and I'm going to go out on a big limb and get very personal. So don't cut me off while I'm on the limb:

 

I have to ask "What is God our Father's heart?'  It is and has always been this:  Psalm 27:10  Even if my father and mother abandon me, the LORD will hold me close. (new living translation)

New American standard translation:   For my father and my mother have forsaken me, But the LORD will take me up.
 

  This comes from the OT, where  God is often accused of being mean and vindictive.  However, throughout the OT we see the story of redemption - God chasing after mankind ultimately culminating in the Cross of Christ, His resurrection and His acceptance of us whereby Jesus tells us to address God as "Abba Father" - a very intimate term basically meaning or giving the sense of 'Daddy'.   The only religion that approaches God with such an intimate name.  Too many people reject God or the concept of God because of the relationship or lack thereof that they had with their earthly father.  So much research has shown that bitterness towards God and rejection of Him is a result of strained relationship with our own father - a father who fell far short of the word "Daddy".  We throw on to God,who calls Himself Father (the Lord's prayer begins "Our Father who is in heaven.....") the image of our earthly father.   Thus going back to your original question, parents should not reject their own if they desire to follow the heart of God as revealed in scripture.  They should care for and provide for their own as 1Timothy 5:8 states.  The verse doesn't have a qualifier - care for your own only if.......       We can take this concept deeper as Jesus did.  The rich young ruler who tried to get out of responsibility to take care of his neighbors by 'fulfilling the law' (being religious) was rebuked by Jesus when he was told to give to the poor and to follow Christ.  Jesus reminds us that the 2nd greatest command is to love our neighbors.  So, 1Tim starts with family and the concept is can be taken deeper and applied to 'our neighbors and the "least of these"'.

 

Yes, there may be times for tough love (even in marriages - my wife has had to give me a bunch of that - I'm too dense to learn sometimes!! But I receive it with joy now as I need her input to be a better man - but i digress) but that happens in all relationships and tough love doesn't mean rejection.   But tough love is often associated with a person's thoughtless actions towards another or that person's continued addictive behavior and the one giving tough love responds accordingly.  It may not have any relationship in general to the issue you bring up  - unless a person generally walks over, disrespect and disregards the values of the parent.  If parents are opposed to the gay lifestyle in their home (the actual love making)  and yet the child proceeds with it or generally disregards the parent's wishes - that may be cause for tough love but not rejection.  As a parent, I have certain ground rules in my home and even if my grown sons have different values in their homes, they should and do respect those of mine when in our home.  However, even if my sons have different values - I will still love them in the midst of our difference and not reject them.

 

I can relate to the issue you bring up in  a different way.  You see this can happen in religious homes in which doctrine takes priority over the Father's heart of love.  I was raised as a Catholic (no offense to those who are Catholic - this can happen in any faith)- very strict, alter boy but lived the life no different than anyone else - wild when not playing HS sports.  Then I met the Jesus of the Bible and my pretty filthy life was transformed over night.  My parents appreciated the fact that I no longer drank, swore and made trouble but when they heard I was no longer attending a Catholic Church (when I went away to college) all 'hell' broke out.  I was shunned and rejected.  It was very painful experience.  My life improved but a dirty Catholic boy was preferred to a clean living evangelical.   That experience and the very abusive environment I and my siblings were raised in (verbal, physical) created deep emotional scares in me for years - manifested in my marriage which my gracious wife and I have worked through.   We carry into our marriages the things we haven't dealt wt from our up bringing - (How we leave one place is how we will enter another - we carry the baggage until it is dealt with.  That is why 2nd marriages often fail or running from one job to another doesn't work out).  But the thing besides my wife's patient love to bring me through was knowing that God is 'Abba Father" Daddy.  Someone I can pray to, receive comfort and help at a time of loss.  My folks and I have long since reconciled but it wasn't easy.
 

 

You may ask - does God accept LGBTG people?   We only need to look at the Cross of Christ.  God will accept anyone who comes to Him in faith and wants to know Him as Abba Father. 

I will let God show each person what needs to change in their life.  But perfect living isn't a prerequisite to faith and acceptance - only humility and faith. 

 

Chimi, I hope one day, you too will see the God that I see & know - one who accepts you and loves you as you are and sees the potential of what you can become.  We all have potential to become more than what we are today.  If you have had a bad relationship wt your father, please don't allow that to be reflected on your perception of God.  The first step I had to take was to forgive my parents but also admit my wrong responses to how I was raised - I wasn't responsible for their actions but I was for my responses.  Then the healing began.     I hope this answers your question sufficiently.  

This might be the most actually utopian thing in this thread. That's for giving some of us hope that there's still good people out there.