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The Republican Utopia

knapplc

By knapplc,
in Politics & Religion

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TGHusker Offensive Coordinator

TGHusker

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30 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I use to be a climate change denier - as it was the standard Republican line.  Facts are a funny thing - or so they say.  It is freeing not to hold to the Republican line - (there are many repubs however who aren't deniers also - so I'll give them credit also)

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BigRedBuster Legend

BigRedBuster

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1 minute ago, TGHusker said:

I use to be a climate change denier - as it was the standard Republican line. 

 

I was too.

 

It's interesting when you step away from either plantation and start looking at things as much as you can without party bias.  What got me was, when I asked myself the question......what if we agree with the scientists and completely believe in manmade global warming?  What's the worst case scenario???

 

Answer.....the world continues to warm and we have cleaner power developed that is more sustainable than fossil fuels.....possibly reversing the trend in the future.

 

Gee....that sounds horrible.  

 

OR....we can deny it and be guaranteed the world is going to continue to warm without us even trying to reverse it.

 

I'll go with trying to fix it especially when that action creates industry, technology advances and jobs.

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TGHusker Offensive Coordinator

TGHusker

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3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I was too.

 

It's interesting when you step away from either plantation and start looking at things as much as you can without party bias.  What got me was, when I asked myself the question......what if we agree with the scientists and completely believe in manmade global warming?  What's the worst case scenario???

 

Answer.....the world continues to warm and we have cleaner power developed that is more sustainable than fossil fuels.....possibly reversing the trend in the future.

 

Gee....that sounds horrible.  

 

OR....we can deny it and be guaranteed the world is going to continue to warm without us even trying to reverse it.

 

I'll go with trying to fix it especially when that action creates industry, technology advances and jobs.

All good points.  The greatest incubator for new technology is ...  a problem.    Acknowledge the problem and try to fix it - act like adults and don't live on the Nile (in denial).  I've found that this works on 'my personal problems' as well - look at it honestly, take ownership, strive to 'fix' it, move forward and do not linger in the backwaters of negativity. 

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Danny Bateman Defensive Coordinator

Danny Bateman

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4 hours ago, TGHusker said:

Have to be a subscriber to read the article - what did it say??

 

You should be able to access it if you try a different browser than you usually use. Anyhow, here's the bulk of it with some stuff cut out.

 

Quote

A year into Trump’s presidency, white evangelicals are rewarding him with some of his strongest support, even amid continuing salacious headlines about his personal foibles.

 

A Washington Post-ABC News poll released this month found 68 percent of white evangelical Protestants approve of Trump’s job performance — a figure that is nearly double that of the population as a whole and that is higher than any other religious or demographic group.

 

“The evangelical base is about as solid as I’ve seen for any sitting president,” said Marc Rotterman, a longtime Republican consultant based in North Carolina. “By and large, they’re focused on results, and they’re willing to overlook any perceived imperfections in the president.”

 

The emergence of Daniels — whom the Wall Street Journal reported was paid $130,000 by a Trump lawyer to keep quiet about an alleged decade-old dalliance with Trump — has shown little sign of sinking the president’s standing among evangelicals, despite accusations of hypocrisy on the part of leaders who skewered the lewd behavior of President Bill Clinton.


Some rank-and-file evangelicals say Trump’s presidency shouldn’t be judged for conduct that occurred long before he took office, while others say they simply don’t believe the news reports.

More than anything, they are letting their view of Trump be guided by other things for which they give him credit: cracking down on illegal immigration, improving the economy and making the nation feel more, in their view, patriotic.
 

“I think a lot of people don’t like him and are out to get him any way they can,” said Tammy Napier, 53, a cashier in Hartville, Mo., when asked about the Daniels news. “I’m from Missouri, the ‘Show-Me State,’ and I’m, like, ‘Show me the proof.’ ”

 

Allen Cannon, who lives in Ovett, Miss., and works for the county transportation department, said Trump needs to be held to a human standard.
 

“You have to take the good along with the bad,” Cannon added. “In my view, Donald Trump’s good outweighs his bad.”
 

The Post-ABC poll underscored how many white evangelical voters are making a distinction between how they view Trump’s behavior and how they view his presidency.

 

While 68 percent say they approve of Trump’s performance, 47 percent say he’s acting in a way that is “fit and proper” for a president.

 

Ralph Reed, a longtime conservative Christian activist who leads the Faith and Freedom Coalition, recalled “a thrice-married billionaire from Manhattan” was considered an unlikely ally when the Republican presidential primaries began.

 

But during the campaign, Trump courted the white evangelical community with specific promises on long-standing issues, and he has been true to his word since reaching the White House, Reed said.

 

“He has delivered on those promises in a very significant way and kept this community close and been a warrior on their issues,” he said. “There’s been a lot that’s been accomplished, and it feels like there’s more every week.”

 

“I’m not saying he didn’t do it,” Cannon, 38, said of the president’s alleged affair. “I don’t agree with it if he did. But after all, he’s not God. So if he was God and was president, then I’d have a problem. That is the only being who is sin-free: God.”

 

Some big-name white evangelical leaders — especially among the old guard — have stepped forward to defend Trump or to give their blessing to look the other way. Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, said last week Trump should get a “mulligan” for the alleged liaison. Prominent evangelist Franklin Graham said Christians are not looking for Trump to be “pastor of this nation.”

 

With little effort, Reed ticked off a list of stances and actions Trump has taken that have drawn praise from evangelicals, including his video address to the annual March for Life — the first time a president has appeared on screen at the event. Presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush called in by telephone.

 

Other actions Reed cited included an executive order easing enforcement of the so-called Johnson Amendment, which restricts political activity by churches; signing legislation to give states the right to end funding of Planned Parenthood; nominating conservative judges, including Neil M. Gorsuch to the Supreme Court; and moving toward withdrawing from the nuclear deal with Iran, which Reed called “a dangerous and bloody regime committed to the destruction of Israel.”

 

Reed said that if the allegations involving Trump and Daniels are true, he would be “profoundly disappointed.” But he said that for those in the faith community, the actions he cited “all rank far higher in their concerns than an unsubstantiated allegation that is over a decade old.”

 

Barry Bennett, a Republican consultant who advised Trump during the 2016 general election campaign, said Trump has engendered goodwill with white evangelicals because he has been true to his word on policy.

 

“In the past, evangelicals have gotten a lot of lip service, particularly from Republican presidents,” Bennett said. “Trump is actually delivering.”

 

And the Daniels story, he said, is not really resonating with voters across the board. “Trump gets accused of something dastardly every day, so there’s a numbness,” he said.

 

When Marva Burke of Sugar Creek, Mo., first heard the Daniels reports, she said she talked about it with a friend with whom she often discusses politics.

 

“We just thought it was another block in the roadway,” said Burke, 68, an evangelical who characterized Trump’s detractors as “nitwits who are trying to block him on everything.”

 

“They’re more interested in the smut,” said Burke, who said she was a “full-fledged Democrat” before voting for Trump. “I’m sorry, give me a break. I don’t care about that stuff.”

 

Burke said she simply doesn’t want to hear about Trump’s sex life — especially if it involves something that happened before he took office. She said she likes Trump’s efforts to restrict immigration and tighten welfare rules.

 

Like many evangelicals, she has not focused much on the issues that religious leaders are discussing on cable news, such as the “conscience office” opened in the Department of Health and Human Services to protect medical providers from having to offer procedures that run counter to their religious convictions.

 

Dan Perna, a wine distributor from Vermont, mostly praised the president for making the country “safer and more prosperous” and credited him with supporting people’s right to say “Merry Christmas.”
 

“This is a Christian-based country, and it should continue,” said Perna, 54, who grew up Presbyterian and said he was born again after a powerful experience as a younger man. “It’s continuously trying to be dragged in a direction it’s not. You want to have sharia law, go to fricking Iran; leave me out of it.”

 

In Mark Stark’s house outside Atlanta, the TV is usually on during dinner and often shows news about Trump, for whom Stark voted and who Stark thinks is “for the most part doing a good job.”

 

While the 57-year-old graphic artist doesn’t know for sure whether Trump is a Christian — or an evangelical, as Stark is — just hearing conservative views from the White House “provides some level of comfort,” he said.

 

Stark said he believes that the reports about Daniels are probably true and that they are a good reason to teach his kids a few lessons: Be cynical and skeptical about public leaders across the board. Note how public morality in general is in the toilet. And when it comes to ethics, Trump is no better or worse than anyone else who has held that office.

 

“Everyone does things they’re not proud of; it’s just whether you get caught,” he said. Other presidents “probably all do things they shouldn’t do, and wouldn’t want people to know. Everywhere you turn, our senses have been exposed to so much in just the last few years. Our compass is kind of fading.”

 

Conservative evangelical figures who appear on TV and talk about religious morality in terms of sexuality and abortion aren’t talking about the same things Stark thinks of in terms of the most urgent religious and moral issues in the United States today. He is thinking about immigration — primarily security and his fear of Islamic terrorism. And on those issues, he and Trump are in sync, he said.

 

Carol Brink of Menlo Park, Calif., who spent several years helping to start evangelical churches, said there are aspects of Trump’s behavior that she doesn’t like.

 

“He pops off, and his language — he dumps all his thoughts out without filtering them first,” said Brink, 82. 

 

“I think most evangelicals are not happy with his language, but in general they’re encouraged by the non-Washington part of it all,” she said. “A lot of people get tired of the same old thing out of Washington. It’s kind of nice to have something different.”

 

Brink said she appreciates Trump’s efforts to cut corporate taxes and roll back regulations.

 

Asked if she thinks Trump has strong morals, Brink said, “That’s a judgment I have trouble making for people.”

 

TL;DR: A lot of them don't care for Trump but they support him because of what he can do for them.

 

I just wished they gave others, like Obama, the same fair shake about taking the good with the bad & overlooking the small stuff. But they didn't & they don't because they didn't like his politics.

 

Some of these quotes, though. Woof.

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TGHusker Offensive Coordinator

TGHusker

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6 minutes ago, dudeguyy said:

 

You should be able to access it if you try a different browser than you usually use. Anyhow, here's the bulk of it with some stuff cut out.

 

 

TL;DR: A lot of them don't care for Trump but they support him because of what he can do for them.

 

I just wished they gave others, like Obama, the same fair shake about taking the good with the bad & overlooking the small stuff. But they didn't & they don't because they didn't like his politics.

 

Some of these quotes, though. Woof.

Too me, it is having a blind eye for short term good but the blind eye has long term consequences.  While Trump may accomplish some things and give lip service to issues evengelicals like myself might believe in, the long term implication is a stained reputation, a mis-repesentation of the Gospel, and a derailed mission.  The church, or this segment of the church, loses it 'moral authority' to speak out on moral issues when they turn a blind eye to every thing Trump.  To me, the better path is to speak out against it and demand a higher standard in the WH. What would happen if they spoke up and in part with all of the other voices, Trump is removed from office. They'd have Pense as President - who would be more in line with them traditionally.  While many won't see that as an 'upgrade' due to his politics but at least he appears to be a true family man of the same values.   If the Christian right spoke out against Bill Clinton, and it/we did, it is only right to speak up wt moral certitude now.  In the early 1970s the evangelical message was associated with the Jesus Movement - people getting set free of drugs, etc by coming to Christ - I was a part of the movement (yes I'm that old!).  There was a clarity of mission and purpose.  Now we have leaders within the evangelical community who have lost that mission. 

It all reminds me of a sermon I heard via cassette tape in the mid 70s(remember those) by Paris Reidhead from the 1960s about humanism in the church. He tells the story of a Jewish priest (from book of Judges in the Bible) who basically prostitutes (my word) himself by deciding to become a 'private priest' of some rich guy named Micah who happens to be an idol worshiper.  Micah agrees to pay him 10 Shekels and a Shirt - thus he has his own private priest but the priest removes himself from his true calling - a priest for God.

Has not these evangelical leaders done the same thing - they look the other way, giving Trump cover (who also secures their votes and the votes of too many others) and they in return get what they want - a voice in the WH and legislation that they approve of.  According to Reidhead,  humanism says that the end of all things is the happiness of man while Christianity says that the end of all things is the glory of God.  I believe this issue is the center - does this bring Glory to God?  I would ask the  martyrs of the church- the persecuted church if they would take the same course as American evangelicals.  I think not.  I say that the message of the gospel suffers more under prosperity than it does under persecution.   Again, the policies may

be acceptable, but the deliverer of those policies is not and should not have the endorsement (either actual or via silence, or excusing of Trump's actions)  of these leaders.

 

 

http://www.heavenreigns.com/pdf/ten_shekels.pdf

 

 

 

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