QMany Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 On 11/23/2019 at 11:36 AM, Guy Chamberlin said: Again, if Democrats hang their hat on proving illegality in this singular Ukraine incident, they won't come anywhere near removal, nor sway the Witch Hunt base. Removing a President is about unfitness for office, and I think that demands a pattern. So if I'm drafting articles of impeachment, Ukraine is simply the latest in a pattern where the President of the United States ignores the clear warning of his own inner circle to pursue a personal agenda often against his own stated policy, the policy of the United States, and the policy of the GOP forced to enable him. It's a pattern that undermines the U.S. intelligence community, often exercised against the wishes and without the knowledge of the U.S. military he puts in harms way. Ukraine is no more or less troubling than Trump' being played by Kim Jung Un, single-handedly dictating our surrender of Syria, or playing a role in the horrifying actions of Saudi Arabia. The Mueller Report is simply a line item among these articles, not the smoking gun. And you don't pretend this is about proving bribery per any legal standard. The moral, ethical, and national security missteps are collectively much worse. A walk through the President's tweets establishes mental instability by pretty much any standard, much less the man who controls armies and nuclear weapons. That Donald Trump's actions play so directly into the hands of Vladimir Putin can remain speculation. But Trump's private financial rescue by Russian oligarchs is a matter of record. If I had enough time and people really needed more convincing, I'd add the Emoluments Clause to my case: Has Donald Trump and family used the Presidency for personal financial gain? The answers are clear, factual, and incredibly damning. Guess I just want to see the full weight of his awfulness crush this f#&%er and his gilded bulls#!t family, and give his supporters nowhere to turn. I think they need to throw the book at him, but I think Bribery is the easiest case to make. Ben Sasse, Susan Collins, etc. can weasel their way out of unfitness arguments. But I think it’s harder to condone clear-cut Bribery. 1 Link to comment
funhusker Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Apparently the 2 Ukrainians caught trying to flee the country turned over audio/video/photos of Trump and Gulliani. Could be an interesting week or two... 3 Link to comment
Moiraine Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, funhusker said: Apparently the 2 Ukrainians caught trying to flee the country turned over audio/video/photos of Trump and Gulliani. Could be an interesting week or two... Nunes should not be allowed to hear or see any of it. 2 Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 2 hours ago, funhusker said: Apparently the 2 Ukrainians caught trying to flee the country turned over audio/video/photos of Trump and Gulliani. Could be an interesting week or two... No first hand evidence, its all hearsay! Link to comment
Notre Dame Joe Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:23 PM, BigRedBuster said: Question. What would you need to see to support impeachment? I'll take treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors Alex. On 11/22/2019 at 2:43 PM, Nebfanatic said: The President using his power to ask a foreign leader to investigate an American citizen is highly unethical and that ignores all of the other context. It might be unethical, then so is spying on them under BS pretenses. But it's not part of the above. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said: I'll take treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors Alex. And what evidence of that do you need? Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 This is what Republicans aren’t thinking about. 2 Link to comment
funhusker Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 6 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said: I'll take treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors Alex. It might be unethical, then so is spying on them under BS pretenses. But it's not part of the above. No one has told you yet, have they? 2 1 Link to comment
Moiraine Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: This is what Republicans aren’t thinking about. Which makes me scared that there’s going to be a coup. It’s either that or they really are this stupid/selfish with literally no foresight. Link to comment
suh_fan93 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Personally I don't think this guy who somehow is serving as our president will in the end not get impeached. Just have a feeling he will somehow snake his way past this as well. At this point I just feel like all of this including the Mueller report feels like one big show at the citizens of the United States expense. Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 7 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said: I'll take treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors Alex. It might be unethical, then so is spying on them under BS pretenses. But it's not part of the above. Well the president wasn't being spied on under false pretenses. Unless you have proof otherwise? Because Barrs investigation into the FISA warrant turned up nada. The thing is it is HIGHLY unethical and impeachable in and of itself, and that is without any of the context. A carrot was also being dangled whether thats aid or a White House meeting and that turns this into bribery plain and simple. There is no denying a White House meeting at least was contingent on investigations and that alone is a bribe. There is really no denying aid was held up too but yall like to mudy the waters on that one so I'm just trying to keep it simple. He didn't even need to hold up the aid to make it bribery 2 Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, suh_fan93 said: Personally I don't think this guy who somehow is serving as our president will in the end get impeached. Just have a feeling he will somehow snake his way past this as well. At this point I just feel like all of this including the Mueller report feels like one big show at the citizens of the United States expense. He probably will, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hold him and his stooges accountable for disregarding our Constitution. Apathy will destroy our nation much faster than partisainship will. 2 Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Found some interesting info looking into this Lev Parnas situation this thing is sinking FAST The House Intelligence Committee may need to call a few more witnesses before this goes to vote. 1 Link to comment
suh_fan93 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said: He probably will, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hold him and his stooges accountable for disregarding our Constitution. Apathy will destroy our nation much faster than partisainship will. I just edited the first sentence in my post and I actually meant to type that I think he will not get impeached. Link to comment
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