Ratt Mhule Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 28 minutes ago, TGHusker said: I agree with this. I think the nation as a whole is trending that way in spite of what some of us more right to center people may desire. Demographics alone will push us that way - a younger population that is more 'brown' will be tipping more states into the blue category. I heard a story on NPR this morning that for the 1st time ever, the younger generation of voters will out number the Baby Boomers. I didn't hear what defined young but I'm thinking it was the 18-40 age group. I think we will see one of this year's candidates take up the progressive mantle plus there are others who are standing in the wings. I don't think it will be a AOC or the rest of her 'group of 4' however. By today's standard - Warren is still young - and maybe at age 74 she may give it another shot but I think it would likely be someone else. Biden is just a stop gap / a temporary pause to the march towards the more left leaning progressive movement. He is the 'finger in the dike (middle finger at that) to stop another 4 years of trump. Of course in the ying and yang of politics, there could be a right of center reaction to all of the movement to the left or to what happens during the Biden term and 2024 may not play out as well for the progressives. First we got to get trump out of office and then allow both parties to reset. I hope the GOP learns some lessons from a massive defeat in 2020. Progressives will never vote for Warren. She lost all credibility with the movement the second she lied about Bernie saying a woman couldnt win and trying to tank his campaign. That plus the fact she didnt endorse Sanders in 2016 or 2020 and its over for her. Her political career might be over as the left is now pushing for someone to primary her senate seat because of her shenanigans. She is not even that popular in MA which is why she came in third in her own state. It will be AOC. Link to comment
knapplc Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Just now, Frott Scost said: Progressives will never vote for Warren. I think I see the problem with the progressive movement. 2 1 Link to comment
Born N Bled Red Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 This corona virus while absolutely terrible, may just open enough people eyes to the fact that our current healthcare system is terrible and a medicare for all solution is necessary. 1 2 Link to comment
Ratt Mhule Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 12 minutes ago, knapplc said: I think I see the problem with the progressive movement. Well I mean she had an opportunity to win people back by endorsing Sanders but decided she didnt care enough. Most of her staff did, so why didnt she? Because she never believed in the movement to begin with. Link to comment
knapplc Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Just now, Frott Scost said: Well I mean she had an opportunity to win people back by endorsing Sanders but decided she didnt care enough. Most of her staff did, so why didnt she? Because she never believed in the movement to begin with. Eh. I think progressives need to build a bigger coalition rather than jettison anyone who doesn't fit exactly their mold of politician. Warren may not be in lock-step with the movement, but she's at least sympathetic to most of its ideals, and she's someone progressives should be willing to work with. The best way to remain a niche movement is to refuse to amend your principles to include more people. The country may be more willing to listen to progressive ideas today, but we're not going to suddenly veer so far left that the Bernies of the political landscape are embraced by the masses. 1 Link to comment
TGHusker Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, Frott Scost said: Progressives will never vote for Warren. She lost all credibility with the movement the second she lied about Bernie saying a woman couldnt win and trying to tank his campaign. That plus the fact she didnt endorse Sanders in 2016 or 2020 and its over for her. Her political career might be over as the left is now pushing for someone to primary her senate seat because of her shenanigans. She is not even that popular in MA which is why she came in third in her own state. It will be AOC. Good points - I forgot about that (Warran issues) and it was also a reason she fell so fast. She did botch it big time after she rose to the top. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, knapplc said: Eh. I think progressives need to build a bigger coalition rather than jettison anyone who doesn't fit exactly their mold of politician. Warren may not be in lock-step with the movement, but she's at least sympathetic to most of its ideals, and she's someone progressives should be willing to work with. This is something that's totally lost on so many people in America right now. If it's not "their guy", their mad and refuse to support the next best thing. We see that with Trump people and we see that with Bernie people It's like they support a person instead of a broader idea of what they want in government. Warren isn't perfect for a Bernie supporter. But, I'm guessing she's a lot closer to his views than almost anyone else in the race. 2 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: This is something that's totally lost on so many people in America right now. If it's not "their guy", their mad and refuse to support the next best thing. We see that with Trump people and we see that with Bernie people It's like they support a person instead of a broader idea of what they want in government. Warren isn't perfect for a Bernie supporter. But, I'm guessing she's a lot closer to his views than almost anyone else in the race. I think what makes Republicans so strong is they're far more unified. They would have lined up behind Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz if either had won in 2016. They got Trump, so they line up behind him. Democrats/progressives... if it's not their specific candidate, they don't want to do that. I think a lot did anyway with Clinton, but a lot didn't - and not nearly enough to counter the Republicans who were more willing to bend their ideology to Trump. If progressives want their movement to continue, they're going to have to be willing to adapt. 1 Link to comment
Ratt Mhule Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, knapplc said: Eh. I think progressives need to build a bigger coalition rather than jettison anyone who doesn't fit exactly their mold of politician. Warren may not be in lock-step with the movement, but she's at least sympathetic to most of its ideals, and she's someone progressives should be willing to work with. The best way to remain a niche movement is to refuse to amend your principles to include more people. The country may be more willing to listen to progressive ideas today, but we're not going to suddenly veer so far left that the Bernies of the political landscape are embraced by the masses. Im speaking in terms of a primary. Yes, they would vote for her if she was the nominee but say she is going head to head with someone like Ro Khanna or AOC, the progressives will most likely vote for the latter two then Warren in the primary. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 minute ago, knapplc said: I think what makes Republicans so strong is they're far more unified. They would have lined up behind Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz if either had won in 2016. They got Trump, so they line up behind him. Democrats/progressives... if it's not their specific candidate, they don't want to do that. I think a lot did anyway with Clinton, but a lot didn't - and not nearly enough to counter the Republicans who were more willing to bend their ideology to Trump. If progressives want their movement to continue, they're going to have to be willing to adapt. You're right, because Bernie will not be running again. They will need to latch onto someone else. Will they? I'm sure someone will emerge to take his place. It will be interesting to see what happens on the Republican side if/when Trump loses in 2020. SOOOO many Republican voters have latched onto him like he's the savior of the world. Will they be willing to then support a more conventional candidate? Will (God forbid) Trump Jr, Jared or Ivanka run? If so, will they continue the support of the Royal Family? Again, I assume someone of that ilk will emerge after Donny is gone. Link to comment
knapplc Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said: Will (God forbid) Trump Jr, Jared or Ivanka run? I think so, and I think they'll get absolutely trounced. The talk yesterday that Trump will breed more Trumps is spot-on. I just disagree that "if we elect Biden there will be a worse Trump." I think that worse Trump is inevitable, and has nothing to do with Biden. I just don't think that "worse Trump" is going to be Jr, Jared or Ivanka. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, knapplc said: I think so, and I think they'll get absolutely trounced. The talk yesterday that Trump will breed more Trumps is spot-on. I just disagree that "if we elect Biden there will be a worse Trump." I think that worse Trump is inevitable, and has nothing to do with Biden. I just don't think that "worse Trump" is going to be Jr, Jared or Ivanka. I agree. Link to comment
TGHusker Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 I thing the worse trump will be a Mark Meadows, Jim Jordon, Doug Collins, or something even worse. Nikki Hailey's blind support for Trump, which may make her a VP candidate in 2020, & her staunch defense of him during the impeachment could be a precursor to her likely run in 2024. She seems to have turned more hard right during the past 4 years or maybe I just realize how far rt she was. Regardless, she will be a 'softer face' for the cause which could be deceptive in itself. Sen Cruz, as much as he has become a apologist for trump, may also remake himself as a Trump clone. Cruz had a difficult reelection in Texas in 2018 and it may be 'easier' for him to run for president again in 2024 following the trump game plan vs trying to defend his senate seat. I don't see Rubio trying to be the next trump. Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 thank you for the common sense Nancy 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Just now, BlitzFirst said: It's not about Jettisoning anyone who doesn't believe enough. It's about not wanting people who do what the establishment does....compromise their own standards and integrity for personal gain. Nothing more. Wanting to have people in office that have integrity should be how everyone is regardless of party. As we can see for anyone not voting for Bernie, that doesn't seem to be the case. Integrity should matter to people...especially in the US, where over half the population still admits to being Christian and not believing in evolution...we should want to help our sick (Jesus anyone?) but here we are...supporting someone who will just make things exactly like they were and possibly undo some of the damage Trump caused...because he won't be able to undo it all. In a perfect world, sure. We live in a world where Trump occupies the White House. Triage that first, then all of the above should be how we deal with politics. Link to comment
Recommended Posts