Nebfanatic Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, sho said: That's awesome! I'm hoping there will be more interest in this general, but based on what I heard during primaries from their friends on the dirty side of the river, I'm not optimistic. I did a little digging on the actual numbers and it seems you are right. I too hope the general election will be different. It's important for the young people who are involved to get others involved as well. That is one thing that definitely helps. Its alot easier and more fun when you go with a group Link to comment
Landlord Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, knapplc said: How does any of this get Trump out of office in November? That's not the only perspective of utmost priority that exists in the world. What good does getting Trump out now do if the means by which we do it is just a continuous of elite corporatist self-serving, paving the way for more broken system animosity, which fans the flames for Trump 2.0 in 4-8 years when we haven't had enough time to even get back to zero? This isn't even my perspective, btw - I will vote for Biden. But your constant framing of people who consciously refuse to participate in the broken system as bad people is unfair and inaccurate imo. 2 Link to comment
knapplc Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Landlord said: That's not the only perspective of utmost priority that exists in the world. As a matter of fact, it kinda is. 3 minutes ago, Landlord said: This isn't even my perspective, btw - I will vote for Biden. But your constant framing of people who consciously refuse to participate in the broken system as bad people is unfair and inaccurate imo. And your attempts to paint enablers of Trump's atrocities as anything other than bad people will continue to fall on deaf ears. 1 2 Link to comment
Landlord Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Which is better, 8 years of Trump and then nobody like Trump ever again? Or four years of Trump, four years of a milque toast Democrat, then eight years of someone Trump paved the way for? 2 Link to comment
knapplc Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, Landlord said: Which is better, 8 years of Trump and then nobody like Trump ever again? Or four years of Trump, four years of a milque toast Democrat, then eight years of someone Trump paved the way for? This is a laughably dishonest choice. 1 Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, Landlord said: Which is better, 8 years of Trump and then nobody like Trump ever again? Or four years of Trump, four years of a milque toast Democrat, then eight years of someone Trump paved the way for? Problem with that is 8 years of Trump at this rate could easily turn into Trump indefinitely. If you don't think that's his angle you are blind. Trump is an immediate threat to everything this country was built on. 1 1 Link to comment
Landlord Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said: Problem with that is 8 years of Trump at this rate could easily turn into Trump indefinitely. If you don't think that's his angle you are blind. Trump is an immediate threat to everything this country was built on. You're right. And it's a reasonable perspective to think our only goal right now has to be a short term solution to stop the bleeding. That's the perspective I have. There's another perspective that we'll survive this first part, and our goal now is to stop being hoodwinked into participating and perpetuating this bulls#!t system. Even in the chance that people who hold that perspective might be misguided, they're not bad people, they're not the reason Trump will get elected and they're not responsible for Trump. 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Landlord said: There's another perspective that we'll survive this first part, and our goal now is to stop being hoodwinked into participating and perpetuating this bulls#!t system. Even in the chance that people who hold that perspective might be misguided, they're not bad people, they're not the reason Trump will get elected and they're not responsible for Trump. We can absolutely do both. The door is likely closed for Bernie to be president. But his ideas, and his methods of combating these things don't have to go away. It would be a great testament to his legacy if we held fast to his ideals and stopped perpetuating this system. Biden isn't the solution to that, no, but he's at least the triage we need at this moment. Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, Landlord said: You're right. And it's a reasonable perspective to think our only goal right now has to be a short term solution to stop the bleeding. That's the perspective I have. There's another perspective that we'll survive this first part, and our goal now is to stop being hoodwinked into participating and perpetuating this bulls#!t system. Even in the chance that people who hold that perspective might be misguided, they're not bad people, they're not the reason Trump will get elected and they're not responsible for Trump. I think misguided is a good word for it. I am no fan of Biden, he is right above Bloomberg on my list so I can empathize a bit with that perspective. That said, what good does not participating really do? Standing by holding your nose up at the system only allows those who play the game with bad intention to win more easily, and like it or not the game has consequences. The power that comes out of this process is very real whether people participate or not. 1 Link to comment
Landlord Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Biden is more than just "not the solution". He is the system. Voting for Biden is perpetuating the system. And that's probably fine as an immediate emergency. Or maybe it's not, and the system will always conveniently have a short-term crisis that doesn't allow us to think big picture but instead keep working as the gears in its machinations. 2 Link to comment
knapplc Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Landlord said: Biden is more than just "not the solution". He is the system. Voting for Biden is perpetuating the system. And that's probably fine as an immediate emergency. Or maybe it's not, and the system will always conveniently have a short-term crisis that doesn't allow us to think big picture but instead keep working as the gears in its machinations. He is THAT problem. He is not the greater problem of Trumpism, which is far, far more damaging to the country than the Bidens of American politics. We're not in a luxury position to revamp the political landscape of the country right now. We're losing our standing in the world, we're infiltrated by people bent on destroying our way of life, we're a haven for racism... all the things Trump promotes. If we can't figure out that this needs to be our priority right now, and not garden-level Biden bureaucracy, then we deserve our fate. 1 Link to comment
RedDenver Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 hours ago, knapplc said: I would be surprised to see Bernie end his campaign today, honestly. Bernie should wait until the convention, do some back room politics to get some concessions from Biden, and then endorse Biden and give him his delegates. It's what Bernie did in 2016. Link to comment
knapplc Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 minute ago, RedDenver said: Bernie should wait until the convention, do some back room politics to get some concessions from Biden, and then endorse Biden and give him his delegates. It's what Bernie did in 2016. True. And that's the smart move, and the one most likely to see (at least parts of) his agenda survive. Link to comment
RedDenver Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, knapplc said: He is THAT problem. He is not the greater problem of Trumpism, which is far, far more damaging to the country than the Bidens of American politics. We're not in a luxury position to revamp the political landscape of the country right now. We're losing our standing in the world, we're infiltrated by people bent on destroying our way of life, we're a haven for racism... all the things Trump promotes. If we can't figure out that this needs to be our priority right now, and not garden-level Biden bureaucracy, then we deserve our fate. The bolded part is simply your opinion. I agree with you, but it doesn't mean we're right. Trumpism could be far less damaging in the long run if it ends with Donald Trump after 8 years, but Biden ends up being the brief interlude before a far more competent version of Trump happens along. 2 Link to comment
RedDenver Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 minute ago, knapplc said: True. And that's the smart move, and the one most likely to see (at least parts of) his agenda survive. I'd like to see Bernie finish what he started in 2016 and get rid of all the super delegates. Link to comment
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