House Majority Whip Steve Scalise shot in Virginia

[Moiraine]

 

How many service men and women are going to go along with that vs how many will refuse or even join the revolt?

I imagine many won't.

 

 

Whatever became of the dissenting army units? What happened to the government and the democracy movement?

 

And those were peaceful protesters. Revolutionaries using their arms -- they would quickly and successfully be denounced as criminals. That's another reason (aside from technology) that this wouldn't work. The vast majority of the population is going to have strong inclinations to side with the government regardless of how authoritarian it is.

 

It's not so much siding with them. It's being unwilling to die over it. Most people go along.

[RedDenver]

 

How many service men and women are going to go along with that vs how many will refuse or even join the revolt?

I imagine many won't.

 

 

Whatever became of the dissenting army units? What happened to the government and the democracy movement?

 

And those were peaceful protesters. Revolutionaries using their arms -- they would quickly and successfully be denounced as criminals. That's another reason (aside from technology) that this wouldn't work. The vast majority of the population is going to have strong inclinations to side with the government regardless of how authoritarian it is.

 

Keep in mind that just 1% of the US population is still roughly 3.3 million people.

[zoogs]

That's still one person to a hundred. 100 to 10,000. Etc.

 

If these people take up arms against the United States, they'll quickly and emphatically be cast out by society writ large as dangerous lunatics. We could elect the most incompetent of maniacs and watch as all branches of government twiddle their thumbs as he takes a hammer to rule of law -- it wouldn't change this.

 

Peaceful protest can make headway in a way that armed insurrection cannot. In order for the latter to succeed, you'd probably need an actual civil war to break out within the U.S. military. Which goes back to individual arms ownership to really be a moot point, I think. Armed rebellion would be crushed. It's far too easy to make the case that these people are the loons. And our government, no matter how authoritarian or even outright evil, is still going to provide stability and serve a majority of the people well enough.

[funhusker]

I'm going to go look for the TED talk I saw once (it may have even been here at Huskerboard) about the success rate of an armed rebellion versus a non-violent protest alternative. I'm not sure, but according to the talk, data shows that if around 3% of a populations joins in the protests that chances of changes in government are far more likely.

 

 

Found it!

 

edit:

[RedDenver]

That's still one person to a hundred. 100 to 10,000. Etc.

 

If these people take up arms against the United States, they'll quickly and emphatically be cast out by society writ large as dangerous lunatics. We could elect the most incompetent of maniacs and watch as all branches of government twiddle their thumbs as he takes a hammer to rule of law -- it wouldn't change this.

 

Peaceful protest can make headway in a way that armed insurrection cannot. In order for the latter to succeed, you'd probably need an actual civil war to break out within the U.S. military. Which goes back to individual arms ownership to really be a moot point, I think. Armed rebellion would be crushed. It's far too easy to make the case that these people are the loons. And our government, no matter how authoritarian or even outright evil, is still going to provide stability and serve a majority of the people well enough.

I agree that non-violent protest is more likely to succeed than violent protest. But that doesn't mean a violent protest cannot succeed. Saying that an armed protest would be crushed ignores the reality of how we're seeing the US military perform against armed insurrections right now.

 

And to give some context to that 3.3 million number - there are currently 1.4 million people serving in the US military. And if the populace writ large rejects the revolutionaries, then they'll obviously fail. A revolution needs the people to follow it to succeed.

[Mavric]

[knapplc]

According to at least one researcher, peaceful protest (as in, not armed, not violent) by as little as 3.5% of the population can topple any government.

 

Peaceful protest is becoming more effective than armed revolt.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/11/05/peaceful-protest-is-much-more-effective-than-violence-in-toppling-dictators/

[funhusker]

According to at least one researcher, peaceful protest (as in, not armed, not violent) by as little as 3.5% of the population can topple any government.

 

Peaceful protest is becoming more effective than armed revolt.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/11/05/peaceful-protest-is-much-more-effective-than-violence-in-toppling-dictators/

I can't read the article, but that sounds in line with the video I posted last night. Is it the same researcher?

[knapplc]

It is! I missed that post up there.

[TGHusker]

Time for a Some thoughts that hit me today.

Somehow we as a country have to address the partisanship extremes that we are seeing in our country and I'm not sure how that can happen. For a while after 911 we were "all Americans' then it went back to partisanship in such a strong way. There were Bush bashers (maybe some of you) and then Obama bashers (me and some others), now we probably both agree Bush and Obama would be better than the current situation. But even in the current situation, we can't be trying to remove a president just because he has a R by his name or just because he has a D by his/her (if it had been Hillary) name. Yes, our country's history has been rife with partisanship since it's beginning -Tories vs Patriots, Federalist vs Antifderalists, Slave rights vs anti-slavery, North vs South, Internationalists vs isolationists, red states vs blue states, etc. It seems at times of national crisis we come together - like 911 and WW2 and at other times it tears us apart - Vietnam, Civil Rights changes.

 

How do we change the discussion? I think we start by considering the people we elect and also the people we empower by our listening and reading via the ratings they gain.

 

Regarding those whom we elect: I've become very weary of red meat republicans and democrats. Those who play just to the hot button items that play to the extremes. That is how Trump got elected. One needs to look well beyond the hot button (it may be your favorite hot button) and see if they have a well rounded, thought out governing philosophy. Trump didn't and still doesn't as an example.

 

Regarding those whom we empower via our listening and reading habits:

The fringe voices gain strength as we visit their websites (left or right). As the # of hits go up, so does their power through advertising $$s. Consider the fact that Megan Kelly can draw viewers with an interview wt nut job Alex Jones. This speaks loudly of the power of how the # of hits on his website has contributed to his ability to influence more people than what his crazy philosophy should garner.

The fringe are drawn to those who speak their language - weather it is Jones or in the case of this shooter - Rachael Maddow's constant negativity (note I don't think Maddow is on the Alex Jones level - I speak however of her constant negative attitude towards all things R). The same could be said of what our culture calls 'art' including the 'assassination' play in NYC or the 'artistic' cut off head" by Griffin. The same can be said of Obama being burned in effigy and the many uncomely attacks on him from the right. All of these should be condemned as not acceptable to a civil society.

 

As for me I've tuned out talk radio - except the local and rare occasions those more balanced in their rhetoric. Even in those cases, my time is very limited because I know that negativity spoils my spirit and soul. Even if the negative 'truth' is correct and factual, one can still be poisoned by it if one over indulges. The same can be true of our discussions on HB. All of the things being said in the multiple threads about Trump may all be true (saying this as a general thought not as a factual thought) but it can still poison our spirit if that is all we 'tune into'. Perhaps at one time this shooter yesterday was balanced in his life. But then he started to believe half truths. As the saying goes "Be aware of half-truths, as you may get the wrong half." Being open and listening to others on HB and else where can challenge our assumptions and help us to avoid ending up wt the wrong half.

[knapplc]

All of the things being said in the multiple threads about Trump may all be true (saying this as a general thought not as a factual thought) but it can still poison our spirit if that is all we 'tune into'.

I would encourage you to point out where people are being unfactual about Trump.

 

But if everything Trump is doing is either foolish, unconstitutional or otherwise illegal, it can't be construed as a problem that HuskerBoard members discuss it.

 

One guy shooting up a bunch of politicians is not a sufficient reason to stop being vigilant of Trump. The man bears much watching.

[BigRedBuster]

 

All of the things being said in the multiple threads about Trump may all be true (saying this as a general thought not as a factual thought) but it can still poison our spirit if that is all we 'tune into'.

I would encourage you to point out where people are being unfactual about Trump.

 

But if everything Trump is doing is either foolish, unconstitutional or otherwise illegal, it can't be construed as a problem that HuskerBoard members discuss it.

 

One guy shooting up a bunch of politicians is not a sufficient reason to stop being vigilant of Trump. The man bears much watching.

 

Trump is such a loony toon that the unfactual pointing out that goes with him is far fewer than normal. But, it still happens. It has even been pointed out on here before.

[TGHusker]

^^^ I did not say people were being unfactual. Re-read it. I was trying to say, beware of how all of the negativity affects us as individuals. As I mentioned, all of the stuff we are saying about Trump can be true and very well may prove to be true (and yes he deserves our watching). But I drew no correlation between the 'one guy' to not being a vigilant watcher of all things Trump. I was speaking on a more personal level - Guard your heart less one become one of them - not in action but in a small degree in attitude. It is like those people who investigate horrendous crimes esp crime against children on a regular basis, or those who work in trauma centers - a person's heart can become numb or brittle or poisoned by it if that is their only 'diet' in life.

[BigRedBuster]

Time for a Some thoughts that hit me today.

Somehow we as a country have to address the partisanship extremes that we are seeing in our country and I'm not sure how that can happen. For a while after 911 we were "all Americans' then it went back to partisanship in such a strong way. There were Bush bashers (maybe some of you) and then Obama bashers (me and some others), now we probably both agree Bush and Obama would be better than the current situation. But even in the current situation, we can't be trying to remove a president just because he has a R by his name or just because he has a D by his/her (if it had been Hillary) name. Yes, our country's history has been rife with partisanship since it's beginning -Tories vs Patriots, Federalist vs Antifderalists, Slave rights vs anti-slavery, North vs South, Internationalists vs isolationists, red states vs blue states, etc. It seems at times of national crisis we come together - like 911 and WW2 and at other times it tears us apart - Vietnam, Civil Rights changes.

 

How do we change the discussion? I think we start by considering the people we elect and also the people we empower by our listening and reading via the ratings they gain.

 

Regarding those whom we elect: I've become very weary of red meat republicans and democrats. Those who play just to the hot button items that play to the extremes. That is how Trump got elected. One needs to look well beyond the hot button (it may be your favorite hot button) and see if they have a well rounded, thought out governing philosophy. Trump didn't and still doesn't as an example.

 

Regarding those whom we empower via our listening and reading habits:

The fringe voices gain strength as we visit their websites (left or right). As the # of hits go up, so does their power through advertising $$s. Consider the fact that Megan Kelly can draw viewers with an interview wt nut job Alex Jones. This speaks loudly of the power of how the # of hits on his website has contributed to his ability to influence more people than what his crazy philosophy should garner.

The fringe are drawn to those who speak their language - weather it is Jones or in the case of this shooter - Rachael Maddow's constant negativity (note I don't think Maddow is on the Alex Jones level - I speak however of her constant negative attitude towards all things R). The same could be said of what our culture calls 'art' including the 'assassination' play in NYC or the 'artistic' cut off head" by Griffin. The same can be said of Obama being burned in effigy and the many uncomely attacks on him from the right. All of these should be condemned as not acceptable to a civil society.

 

As for me I've tuned out talk radio - except the local and rare occasions those more balanced in their rhetoric. Even in those cases, my time is very limited because I know that negativity spoils my spirit and soul. Even if the negative 'truth' is correct and factual, one can still be poisoned by it if one over indulges. The same can be true of our discussions on HB. All of the things being said in the multiple threads about Trump may all be true (saying this as a general thought not as a factual thought) but it can still poison our spirit if that is all we 'tune into'. Perhaps at one time this shooter yesterday was balanced in his life. But then he started to believe half truths. As the saying goes "Be aware of half-truths, as you may get the wrong half." Being open and listening to others on HB and else where can challenge our assumptions and help us to avoid ending up wt the wrong half.

 

I have been spending more time than normal around my parents lately. I have spoken about them on here before. They are the typical elderly Trump supporter that sits down and watches Fox News for hours and soaks up all the crap they can about those evil liberals and Hillary and Obama are out to destroy America.

 

Anyway, I refuse to even sit in the living room with them when Fox News is on. They finally were catching on and when I would come sit down, they would change.

 

Well, last night I sat down and Fox (Hannity) was talking about the shootings. "Dad asked, What do you think about that?" I calmly expressed my feelings about how disappointed I am about what this country has become where all the sides do is demonize each other. Dad started in instantly talking about how this guy was a BERNIE supporter and how this happened because he was a liberal and he just can't figure out why "THEY hate Trump so much".

 

I lost it......... I went off.....I expressed exactly why I can't stand Trump and gave all specific examples and reasons. My Dad sat their fairly quiet and my Mom would say...."I didn't know that". I said..."Fox News isn't going to tell you that because he's their God Child and you only listen to Fox News". My wife was digging her nails into my leg and I just didn't stop. I gave specific examples of Republican congressmen like Rand Paul (posted on here) tweeting last year about what the second amendment is for and picking up your musket if Trump didn't win....etc.

 

I'm still pissed about the conversation just writing this post.

 

Dad just sat back and said...."well, this is fun". and changed the channel.

 

Sadly, my expressing my feelings won't change anything.

[TGHusker]

 

Time for a Some thoughts that hit me today.

Somehow we as a country have to address the partisanship extremes that we are seeing in our country and I'm not sure how that can happen. For a while after 911 we were "all Americans' then it went back to partisanship in such a strong way. There were Bush bashers (maybe some of you) and then Obama bashers (me and some others), now we probably both agree Bush and Obama would be better than the current situation. But even in the current situation, we can't be trying to remove a president just because he has a R by his name or just because he has a D by his/her (if it had been Hillary) name. Yes, our country's history has been rife with partisanship since it's beginning -Tories vs Patriots, Federalist vs Antifderalists, Slave rights vs anti-slavery, North vs South, Internationalists vs isolationists, red states vs blue states, etc. It seems at times of national crisis we come together - like 911 and WW2 and at other times it tears us apart - Vietnam, Civil Rights changes.

 

How do we change the discussion? I think we start by considering the people we elect and also the people we empower by our listening and reading via the ratings they gain.

 

Regarding those whom we elect: I've become very weary of red meat republicans and democrats. Those who play just to the hot button items that play to the extremes. That is how Trump got elected. One needs to look well beyond the hot button (it may be your favorite hot button) and see if they have a well rounded, thought out governing philosophy. Trump didn't and still doesn't as an example.

 

Regarding those whom we empower via our listening and reading habits:

The fringe voices gain strength as we visit their websites (left or right). As the # of hits go up, so does their power through advertising $$s. Consider the fact that Megan Kelly can draw viewers with an interview wt nut job Alex Jones. This speaks loudly of the power of how the # of hits on his website has contributed to his ability to influence more people than what his crazy philosophy should garner.

The fringe are drawn to those who speak their language - weather it is Jones or in the case of this shooter - Rachael Maddow's constant negativity (note I don't think Maddow is on the Alex Jones level - I speak however of her constant negative attitude towards all things R). The same could be said of what our culture calls 'art' including the 'assassination' play in NYC or the 'artistic' cut off head" by Griffin. The same can be said of Obama being burned in effigy and the many uncomely attacks on him from the right. All of these should be condemned as not acceptable to a civil society.

 

As for me I've tuned out talk radio - except the local and rare occasions those more balanced in their rhetoric. Even in those cases, my time is very limited because I know that negativity spoils my spirit and soul. Even if the negative 'truth' is correct and factual, one can still be poisoned by it if one over indulges. The same can be true of our discussions on HB. All of the things being said in the multiple threads about Trump may all be true (saying this as a general thought not as a factual thought) but it can still poison our spirit if that is all we 'tune into'. Perhaps at one time this shooter yesterday was balanced in his life. But then he started to believe half truths. As the saying goes "Be aware of half-truths, as you may get the wrong half." Being open and listening to others on HB and else where can challenge our assumptions and help us to avoid ending up wt the wrong half.

I have been spending more time than normal around my parents lately. I have spoken about them on here before. They are the typical elderly Trump supporter that sits down and watches Fox News for hours and soaks up all the crap they can about those evil liberals and Hillary and Obama are out to destroy America.

 

Anyway, I refuse to even sit in the living room with them when Fox News is on. They finally were catching on and when I would come sit down, they would change.

 

Well, last night I sat down and Fox (Hannity) was talking about the shootings. "Dad asked, What do you think about that?" I calmly expressed my feelings about how disappointed I am about what this country has become where all the sides do is demonize each other. Dad started in instantly talking about how this guy was a BERNIE supporter and how this happened because he was a liberal and he just can't figure out why "THEY hate Trump so much".

 

I lost it......... I went off.....I expressed exactly why I can't stand Trump and gave all specific examples and reasons. My Dad sat their fairly quiet and my Mom would say...."I didn't know that". I said..."Fox News isn't going to tell you that because he's their God Child and you only listen to Fox News". My wife was digging her nails into my leg and I just didn't stop. I gave specific examples of Republican congressmen like Rand Paul (posted on here) tweeting last year about what the second amendment is for and picking up your musket if Trump didn't win....etc.

 

I'm still pissed about the conversation just writing this post.

 

Dad just sat back and said...."well, this is fun". and changed the channel.

 

Sadly, my expressing my feelings won't change anything.

 

My Dad I think is coming around slowly. He decided to change his registration from R to I. He has spoken negatively of some of the Fox guys including Hannity and O'Reilly before he was fired. I personally cannot stand to listen to Hannity. I know it is nothing but a partisan rant. I understand Fox has dropped or is dropping the motto 'Fair and Balanced' - maybe they are removing any pretense.