Star Wars: Episode VIII ***Speculation & Spoilers***

[NUinID]

12 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

 

 

 

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, it has nothing to do with a theory about why you didn't like the movie. It's entirely a, "Hey, totally understandable if you didn't like it, but it's a different and inappropriate thing to say that it's bad." Maybe that's just semantics, I don't know. For me, I differentiate all the time between things that I think are of poor quality (bad) or things that I just didn't enjoy or get. For me to say something is bad is different than for me to say that I didn't like it. Apologies if that's not what you're intending, that's just what it sounds like. 

 

I get passionate about it because film is my craft and my career. Corporate Disney overlords or not, hearing someone say that a product is just qualitatively poor -- something that is SO difficult to create, that involves so much creativity, so much dedication, so many man hours by people, so much heart and soul, and works within the context of what I understand actually makes for good filmmaking and story telling -- is just offensive to my ears

 

Landlord this has been my argument on the subject, and it may just be semantics.  It is not poorly made, the acting is not terrible.  It is completely possible to not like the movie but that doesn't mean it is a bad movie.  

[Enhance]

7 hours ago, whateveritis1224 said:

There was the father who was balanced, a son who was the darkside, and the daughter who was the lightside.  I would find it way cooler to have that conflict if Kylo and Rey were related.

 

This is my biggest issue with this movie, and now I guess the trilogy if IX continues with this.  You have the entire resistance/rebellion to show how nobodies can change the galaxy.  Leave the balancing the force stuff to the Skywalkers.

I think this comes down to what you want/expect the Star Wars universe to be.

 

I've essentially landed on the opinion that this movie was written and designed for a new generation of Star Wars fan. From my perception, there are a lot of fans (particularly older fans, no offense intended) who wanted/expected things to be a certain way. Things that aligned with their four decades of Star Wars fandom. Rian Johnson took many of the theories and a lot of the expectations and simply said 'nope.' 

[Redux]

1 hour ago, knapplc said:

 

For the same reason HuskerBoard has more traffic after a loss than a win.  There's a ton to discuss. 

 

Okay, then let's set this aside.  Back to duscussion.

 

Luke didn't necessarily need to die.  JJ could even do some weird force power vanish trick and say he didn't die.  But my money would be on Snoke regenerating if I had to bet on the two.

[Enhance]

3 minutes ago, NUinID said:

Landlord this has been my argument on the subject, and it may just be semantics.  It is not poorly made, the acting is not terrible.  It is completely possible to not like the movie but that doesn't mean it is a bad movie.  

I agree with both of you.

 

Regardless of whether or not a person likes the story direction, I do not think it's a "bad" movie. Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley turned in two great performances (and arguably the two best performances in a Star Wars movie to date) and the cinematography was top notch. The movie did suffer from some disappointing plot decisions, but, not enough to make it a "bad" movie.

[knapplc]

9 minutes ago, Redux said:

Luke didn't necessarily need to die.  JJ could even do some weird force power vanish trick and say he didn't die.  But my money would be on Snoke regenerating if I had to bet on the two.

 

I think Snoke is done and done, and it's time for Kylo Ren to take center stage.  The next movie will be all about how he and Rey figure out their places in the Galaxy. 

[Redux]

37 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

I think Snoke is done and done, and it's time for Kylo Ren to take center stage.  The next movie will be all about how he and Rey figure out their places in the Galaxy. 

 

I agree, Snoke is dead and should stay dead.  Vader never got the reigns like Kylo has taken, I like this concept.  My concern is JJ made Snoke and may want to bring him back, hoping he lets it go.

[knapplc]

I guess I don't pay enough attention to who directs what movie.

 

What is the logic in having JJ Abrams direct The Force Awakens, Rian Johnson direct The Last Jedi, then having JJ Abrams direct Star Wars IX?  That's not going to do much for continuity.

 

[Landlord]

55 minutes ago, knapplc said:

I guess I don't pay enough attention to who directs what movie.

 

What is the logic in having JJ Abrams direct The Force Awakens, Rian Johnson direct The Last Jedi, then having JJ Abrams direct Star Wars IX?  That's not going to do much for continuity.

 

 

 

Originally Colin Trevorrow (Jurassic World) was set to direct Episode IX, but he was kicked to the curb due to a contentious relationship with Kathleen Kennedy and a failure to really do anything with the script that anyone liked. I'm happy about him being out - he hasn't shown the ability to handle a franchise like this, or even make a great blockbuster in general imo. I think Rian has other stuff going on, or is chill enough that he didn't want to do Ep IX, and Abrams seemed like a safe/logical option all things considered.

[Cdog923]

I saw it on Sunday, and got a bit worried when I saw that initial reactions were tepid at best. I've pointed out what I dislike about it in the thread, but there is really some good-to-great aspects of the movie. That being said, I would have half as many problems with this trilogy if I felt like they were handling the OT characters with grace. With Carrie Fisher's unfortunate passing, I think they're going to go 0-3 in that department. 

[whateveritis1224]

2 hours ago, Enhance said:

I think this comes down to what you want/expect the Star Wars universe to be.

 

I've essentially landed on the opinion that this movie was written and designed for a new generation of Star Wars fan. From my perception, there are a lot of fans (particularly older fans, no offense intended) who wanted/expected things to be a certain way. Things that aligned with their four decades of Star Wars fandom. Rian Johnson took many of the theories and a lot of the expectations and simply said 'nope.' 

Overall I was fine to liking/loving the movie and there is no one part that I hated.  I liked Luke outside of the first toss of the lightsaber over his shoulder.   

 

IMO I think a duel between two descendants of the force (Kylo and Rey if they had gone that way) would have interested me way more than some random being the lightside match to someone of Skywalker blood.  Maybe I'll be fine with whatever they come up with in IX, but my initial reaction is this.

[Cdog923]

2 hours ago, Enhance said:

I think this comes down to what you want/expect the Star Wars universe to be.

 

I've essentially landed on the opinion that this movie was written and designed for a new generation of Star Wars fan. From my perception, there are a lot of fans (particularly older fans, no offense intended) who wanted/expected things to be a certain way. Things that aligned with their four decades of Star Wars fandom. Rian Johnson took many of the theories and a lot of the expectations and simply said 'nope.' 

 

For me, I look at it two ways: Blade Runner 2049 took an established universe and treated it's characters respectfully, while also building towards the future, should they choose to make another film in that universe. For me, Star Wars is redefining their establish characters in ways that I would not have expected (or enjoyed) in order to push the franchise in a new direction, for a new fanbase. 

[NUinID]

35 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

 

For me, I look at it two ways: Blade Runner 2049 took an established universe and treated it's characters respectfully, while also building towards the future, should they choose to make another film in that universe. For me, Star Wars is redefining their establish characters in ways that I would not have expected (or enjoyed) in order to push the franchise in a new direction, for a new fanbase. 

 

Guess I don't know what you mean by respectfully.  You don't like General Organa is the real leader of the three?  You don't like that Kylo Ren killed his father Han or the fact that he went back to smuggling.  You don't like that Luke is not some mythical Jedi Master that knows exactly what he is doing, but a guy that doubts his abilities and blames himself?   

 

Could you explain not being respectful of the characters.  

[Enhance]

29 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

For me, I look at it two ways: Blade Runner 2049 took an established universe and treated it's characters respectfully, while also building towards the future, should they choose to make another film in that universe. For me, Star Wars is redefining their establish characters in ways that I would not have expected (or enjoyed) in order to push the franchise in a new direction, for a new fanbase. 

I think the bolded is some of what we're seeing but I don't think the intent going in was to ostracize fans of the original trilogy. I think the true vision was to take Star Wars in an unfamiliar direction and try to please fans young and old. The reality, as well, is so many people are so invested in the movies that it's impossible to please everyone.

 

Heck, there are a lot of people in this thread who think Rogue One is a great (if not one of the best) Star Wars films out there and I couldn't disagree more with that sentiment.

 

Out of curiosity, you say 2049 "took an established universe and treated its characters respectfully." It would seem you're indirectly saying that The Last Jedi disrespected its characters. Could you tell me a little more about why you feel this way?

[Cdog923]

1 hour ago, Enhance said:

I think the bolded is some of what we're seeing but I don't think the intent going in was to ostracize fans of the original trilogy. I think the true vision was to take Star Wars in an unfamiliar direction and try to please fans young and old. The reality, as well, is so many people are so invested in the movies that it's impossible to please everyone.

 

Heck, there are a lot of people in this thread who think Rogue One is a great (if not one of the best) Star Wars films out there and I couldn't disagree more with that sentiment.

 

Out of curiosity, you say 2049 "took an established universe and treated its characters respectfully." It would seem you're indirectly saying that The Last Jedi disrespected its characters. Could you tell me a little more about why you feel this way?

 

1 hour ago, NUinID said:

 

Guess I don't know what you mean by respectfully.  You don't like General Organa is the real leader of the three?  You don't like that Kylo Ren killed his father Han or the fact that he went back to smuggling.  You don't like that Luke is not some mythical Jedi Master that knows exactly what he is doing, but a guy that doubts his abilities and blames himself?   

 

Could you explain not being respectful of the characters.  

 

I guess disrespectful might have been too strong of a word; this tweet chain from CJ Anders in this post sums it up: 

 

 

Also, Hamill has come out numerous times about the conflict he had with Johnson's portrayal of Luke; in an interview that I saw today (might be older), he refers to playing the character as "Jake" Skywalker as opposed to Luke Skywalker

Edited December 21, 2017 by Cdog923

[Landlord]

11 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

 

 

I guess disrespectful might have been too strong of a word; this tweet chain from CJ Anders in this post sums it up: 

 

 

 

You realize that thread is a praise of how they portrayed Han, not a criticism, right?