Jump to content
khaake

Football and Militarism

Recommended Posts

Is anyone else uncomfortable with how much the DoD seems to be embedding itself into athletics, particularly football, on both the collegiate and professional levels? It isn't healthy. Who at the university is responsible for things such this past weekend's Veteran and Military Appreciation game?

  • Plus1 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, uncomfortable as I am antiwar/military.  They use football, baseball, etc as recruiting tools.

 

Troops, bombs, blitzes, territory, naw, nothing in common with war, etc....

Edited by Big Red Commie
  • Plus1 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope...

 

But then again I don't get uncomfortable about most things.  Except for those companies that put the tags of shirts on the inside of the shirt near your hip.  

 

  • Plus1 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously... I’m currently serving my country and would like to enlighten both of you about the military. For the past six months I have barely been home. I started with aviation training to help rescue civilians incase of a natural or man made disaster took place in the United States. After I returned, I was called up to help during Hurricane Irma in Florida. I recently returned home from a transportation mission. None of these involved weapons of any sort. The majority of service members don’t want to go to war. We signed the dotted line and will follow orders. We have a volunteer force and the services have to recruit. I can tell you if someone trys to harm innocent people around me, I will tell my wife and children I love them and then would try to stop them.  Would you? I love my country and state. GBR

  • Plus1 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, T_GBR_FAN said:

Seriously... I’m currently serving my country and would like to enlighten both of you about the military. For the past six months I have barely been home. I started with aviation training to help rescue civilians incase of a natural or man made disaster took place in the United States. After I returned, I was called up to help during Hurricane Irma in Florida. I recently returned home from a transportation mission. None of these involved weapons of any sort. The majority of service members don’t want to go to war. We signed the dotted line and will follow orders. We have a volunteer force and the services have to recruit. I can tell you if someone trys to harm innocent people around me, I will tell my wife and children I love them and then would try to stop them.  Would you? I love my country and state. GBR

 

What are you disagreeing with? 

 

First off, everyone (everyone sane, that is) really thanks you and respects you.  At the game last weekend we shook the hands of the people in active service or those (like my dad) who have already served.  It was fun to reach around and shake their hands, pat their backs, and show them that we thank and respect them for what they did.  It was also really, really neat to see the service men & women, both retired and active duty, introduced on the field.  Bomber pilots from WWII & Korea, veterans of Vietnam, Desert Storm, Afghanistan, Iraq, and currently active people. We gave them one hell of an ovation, because we love and respect them.

 

But some people, like me, are concerned that bad people in our government (nod if you agree we have bad people in our government) have and will misuse our brave folks in uniform for their own ends.  That is what this thread, and our concern is about.

 

Do not make the mistake of thinking people are anti-military.  I'm not, and I don't think anyone responding so far is (OK except one guy, but he can explain his comments himself).

 

To answer your question - absolutely, if I saw someone harming an innocent person, I would step in.  Almost everyone here would.  You, with your training, would do a far better job than those of us who are untrained. But we'd still try. 

Edited by knapplc
  • Plus1 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NFL is currently having their "military appreciation" time of the season.  Yes, it's a great gesture to honor the military and all the sacrifices that our military members and their families have done.  However, the main reason they are doing it is to sell more NFL team gear.  I walked into Dick's Sporting Goods this weekend, and the entire middle area of their floor was military-themed Broncos gear.  It's all a sales & marketing ploy.

  • Plus1 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, T_GBR_FAN said:

Seriously... I’m currently serving my country and would like to enlighten both of you about the military. For the past six months I have barely been home. I started with aviation training to help rescue civilians incase of a natural or man made disaster took place in the United States. After I returned, I was called up to help during Hurricane Irma in Florida. I recently returned home from a transportation mission. None of these involved weapons of any sort. The majority of service members don’t want to go to war. We signed the dotted line and will follow orders. We have a volunteer force and the services have to recruit. I can tell you if someone trys to harm innocent people around me, I will tell my wife and children I love them and then would try to stop them.  Would you? I love my country and state. GBR

I also served. And I think it's ridiculous for the DoD to pay for tributes at sporting events. Run recruiting commercials during the game? Fine. Exploit patriotism by paying for tributes? No.

  • Plus1 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

What are you disagreeing with? 

 

First off, everyone (everyone sane, that is) really thanks you and respects you.  At the game last weekend we shook the hands of the people in active service or those (like my dad) who have already served.  It was fun to reach around and shake their hands, pat their backs, and show them that we thank and respect them for what they did.  It was also really, really neat to see the service men & women, both retired and active duty, introduced on the field.  Bomber pilots from WWII & Korea, veterans of Vietnam, Desert Storm, Afghanistan, Iraq, and currently active people. We gave them one hell of an ovation, because we love and respect them.

 

But some people, like me, are concerned that bad people in our government (nod if you agree we have bad people in our government) have and will misuse our brave folks in uniform for their own ends.  That is what this thread, and our concern is about.

 

Do not make the mistake of thinking people are anti-military.  I'm not, and I don't think anyone responding so far is. 

 

To answer your question - absolutely, if I saw someone harming an innocent person, I would step in.  Almost everyone here would.  You, with your training, would do a far better job than those of us who are untrained. But we'd still try. 

Might want to check out Big Red Commies comment

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I seem to remember there being a thread complaining about this before a couple years back. Except it was a pretty anti military minded post. This one seems more neutral......... hmmm.

 

Any way it's a recruiting tool. The army doesn't draft in peace time yet it needs fresh bodies in uniforms so thus the hefty advertising to attract recruits. If you don't like the advertising than boy is this the wrong sport for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Dbqgolfer said:

Might want to check out Big Red Commies comment

I don't...

 

 

...but you're right. Missed it. :D

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Big Red Commie said:

Yeah, uncomfortable as I am antiwar/military.  They use football, baseball, etc as recruiting tools.

 

Troops, bombs, blitzes, territory, naw, nothing in common with war, etc....

the anti-war sentiment you express in your post sure contrasts with your sig.   "Political power comes out of the barrel of a gun......(Mao Tse Tung)"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess it doesn't really bother me.  The military needs to advertise also, just like car makers, booze makers, pizza makers and so on.  It's an easy and effective way to get word out about joining the military, especially when you have 10's of millions of people watching every weekend.  

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, knapplc said:

This probably belongs in Politics & Religion more than Husker Football, but I see why you put it here.


I can see that argument, but in this case it is a decision by UNL, other universities, and the NFL to agree to use their teams to deliberately promote the military, which is why I posted it here.

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Stumpy1 said:

I guess it doesn't really bother me.  The military needs to advertise also, just like car makers, booze makers, pizza makers and so on.  It's an easy and effective way to get word out about joining the military, especially when you have 10's of millions of people watching every weekend.  

 

The point is that they're not advertising in the same way as the companies you mention are, in that it isn't limited to just commercial breaks. Sure, booze makers advertise, but have you ever watched a game where the official ceremonies included "A Tribute to Our Nation's Breweries"?

  • Plus1 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, husker98 said:

Any way it's a recruiting tool. The army doesn't draft in peace time yet it needs fresh bodies in uniforms so thus the hefty advertising to attract recruits. If you don't like the advertising than boy is this the wrong sport for you.


Two questions:
1. Why are football games deemed appropriate venues for military recruitment?
2. I'm a little puzzled by your comment that one can't enjoy football if you don't like military advertising, unless you mean that because the military spends a lot of money on marketing for football games, etc., you can't get away from it? There isn't anything intrinsically militaristic to the game itself, other than what it being injected by the Department of Defense, is there? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have always greatly respected the military and definitely respect people who serve our country....thank you for your service.

 

I guess my feelings on it are that it's getting overboard and almost feels uncomfortable.  

I am all for showing appreciation for all members of the armed forces and make sure they know I thank them for their service.  But, it's like all sporting events (not just football) is now all of a sudden military appreciation day constantly.

 

It's almost like it's gone so far that it even takes away from the purpose of....showing appreciation.


It's like if every time I sat down for dinner with my wife, I felt like I needed to make her feel like it's our anniversary and heap love and devotion upon her so that she feels special.  Sometimes, dinner just needs to be.....dinner.

  • Plus1 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's another way to look at it: sports were originally designed as a replacement for war. 

 

For whatever reason we are hardwired for aggression, motivated to take over someone else's territory, and always needing an enemy to vanquish. Football especially mimics warfare.The comparison can seem inappropriate or uncivilized, but it can also be a relatively safe outlet for our violent impulses and civic pride. Otherwise we would simply have used Offut AFB to wipe Madison, Wisconsin off the face of the Earth.

 

It works a lot better when we're not simultaneously waging real wars with real bloodshed, but that's the general idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

There's another way to look at it: sports were originally designed as a replacement for war. 

 

For whatever reason we are hardwired for aggression, motivated to take over someone else's territory, and always needing an enemy to vanquish. Football especially mimics warfare.The comparison can seem inappropriate or uncivilized, but it can also be a relatively safe outlet for our violent impulses and civic pride. Otherwise we would simply have used Offut AFB to wipe Madison, Wisconsin off the face of the Earth.

 

It works a lot better when we're not simultaneously waging real wars with real bloodshed, but that's the general idea.

None of that means the military should be paying to have self-serving tributes at sporting events.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems a bit odd that some are against the government/military "advertising" out country during game, but are fine with Pepsi, Valentinos and Runza humping their wares during games.  Yes, it is advertising for recruiting at some level.  So what?   Call it jingo-ism if you like, but I much prefer ads that support our country than ads geared at random products.  And I love Pepsi and Vals....can't stand Runzas though.  

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, grandpasknee said:

Seems a bit odd that some are against the government/military "advertising" out country during game, but are fine with Pepsi, Valentinos and Runza humping their wares during games.  Yes, it is advertising for recruiting at some level.  So what?   Call it jingo-ism if you like, but I much prefer ads that support our country than ads geared at random products.  And I love Pepsi and Vals....can't stand Runzas though.  

If it were advertising just like Pepsi, Valentino's, etc. then there wouldn't be a problem. It's paying to militarize the National Anthem and the associated hoopla that's the issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m fine with any venue honoring the troops.

I don’t like sports team managers equating their ball playing guys to soldiers as if they’re the same thing.

Friday is Veterans Day and my wife gets it off... I asked her why we don’t stay at work and give all the veterans a paid holiday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

If it were advertising just like Pepsi, Valentino's, etc. then there wouldn't be a problem. It's paying to militarize the National Anthem and the associated hoopla that's the issue.

The national anthem was written about and for a war. It’s already militarized.

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, jager said:

The national anthem was written about and for a war. It’s already militarized.

Exactly. There's no reason to militarize it further, especially no reason for the DoD to be paying for it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the worst part is that the military now apparently OWNS the national anthem, and any criticism of the United States suddenly becomes a slap in the face of brave servicemen.

 

Patriotism is the refuge of cowards, as someone once said.

  • Plus1 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

If it were advertising just like Pepsi, Valentino's, etc. then there wouldn't be a problem. It's paying to militarize the National Anthem and the associated hoopla that's the issue.

OK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Well the worst part is that the military now apparently OWNS the national anthem, and any criticism of the United States suddenly becomes a slap in the face of brave servicemen.

 

Patriotism is the refuge of cowards, as someone once said.

Who said that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, grandpasknee said:

Who said that?

 

You made me look it up and I got it slightly wrong:

 

 

“Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.” - Samuel Johnson, 1775

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, grandpasknee said:

Seems a bit odd that some are against the government/military "advertising" out country during game, but are fine with Pepsi, Valentinos and Runza humping their wares during games.  Yes, it is advertising for recruiting at some level.  So what?   Call it jingo-ism if you like, but I much prefer ads that support our country than ads geared at random products.  And I love Pepsi and Vals....can't stand Runzas though.  

 

 

I'm actually against all of that. Some places, like Michigan, have zero corporate advertisements in their stadium and during their games. And it's completely amazing.

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Landlord said:

 

 

I'm actually against all of that. Some places, like Michigan, have zero corporate advertisements in their stadium and during their games. And it's completely amazing.

I'd be ALL for that.  Besides, my section never wins a free pizza or pepsi anyway!  heh heh...and Michigan has been one of my "bucket list" games to visit, along with Army/Navy and Florida / Georgia.  Even more reason to go now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

You made me look it up and I got it slightly wrong:

 

 

“Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.” - Samuel Johnson, 1775

I looked it up to and found the Samuel Johnson quote, as well as some other fellow I'd never heard of.  The second fellow actually said the same thing 'Patriotism is the last refuge of the coward, as some one once said"...so he was requoting the unknown.

 

There is no doubt that scoundrels will hide behind patriotism and many other things.  It certainly does not, in any way, mean that all patriots are scoundrels.  At least it doesn't mean that to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's just marketing. The same core base of people who enjoy football and NASCAR tend to be the most pro-military demographic as well. Football teams/leagues are pandering to their audience, trying to show how much they respect the military by allowing and encouraging all of these appreciation events and advertising. TBH, as a vet, I don't care one way or the other. Doesn't matter to me unless I'm getting free food, then my interest might be piqued. I do have to admit that I hate when people find out I'm a vet and scramble over each other to shake my hand and lick my butthole in feigned gratitude because they feel like it's what they are supposed to do. #pleasedontdothat #justsayhi

  • Plus1 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, grandpasknee said:

 

 

There is no doubt that scoundrels will hide behind patriotism and many other things.  It certainly does not, in any way, mean that all patriots are scoundrels.  At least it doesn't mean that to me.

 

Agree. I think  the "ism" part of the equation is the problem. You do the right thing for the right reason, and give credit to your country as desired, but as soon as you start selling your "ism" as a way to separate  good people from bad, it all goes south, 

  • Plus1 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eisenhower was right.  The Military Industrial Complex exists and part of its strategy to make money is to keep Americans keyed up for war so that they can make boatloads of money.

 

I agree that it borders on jingoistic, and it makes me a bit uncomfortable.  However, it is over quickly and one can take it as an actual thank you to our veterans as well as what it likely is, which is a way to keep pushing people to vote for a bigger military budget, so I try to take it as the veterans thank you.  But we need to be cognizant of the fact that a strong part of this is to keep up support for our very large military budget.

Edited by neepster
  • Plus1 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, commando said:

the anti-war sentiment you express in your post sure contrasts with your sig.   "Political power comes out of the barrel of a gun......(Mao Tse Tung)"

Nice pick up.  Let me correct.  I do believe in revolutionary war, not imperialist war.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is just marketing under the guise of appreciation.  Even with that said, I don't mind.  I am a proud veteran with a love of country and symbols that represent....... such as our flag and anthem.  

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love football, I love our country, and I have the utmost respect for anyone who is or has served in the military.  I see no problem with the military embedding itself into football.                USA!!! GBR!!!

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, ColoradoHusk said:

The NFL is currently having their "military appreciation" time of the season.  Yes, it's a great gesture to honor the military and all the sacrifices that our military members and their families have done.  However, the main reason they are doing it is to sell more NFL team gear.  I walked into Dick's Sporting Goods this weekend, and the entire middle area of their floor was military-themed Broncos gear.  It's all a sales & marketing ploy.

 

Do they do the same thing -- including the TV commercials -- around every Veterans Day?  Because I immediately took this as the NFL attempting a make good for all the anthem protests.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What bothers me about it, in addition to it feeling 'forced' after a point, is that it starts to feel less like an appreciation event and more like a political event. That may not be the intent of those who organized it, but too much is too much.

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Do they do the same thing -- including the TV commercials -- around every Veterans Day?  Because I immediately took this as the NFL attempting a make good for all the anthem protests.

Yeah, they have done the same thing for the past few Novembers.  It's like the Pinktober the NFL would do to act like they care about breast cancer and they want to support women, but their actual donations to the Susan G Komen fund was minimal, as they sold "pink team gear" all month.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, swmohusker said:

I love football, I love our country, and I have the utmost respect for anyone who is or has served in the military.  I see no problem with the military embedding itself into football.                USA!!! GBR!!!

 

I love football and I love our country too. But I don't think those things go together. 

 

We sing the national anthem before every. single. game. College, Pro, High School.  Before every baseball game, every basketball game, blah blah blah. But while I love those games and I love my country - and I actually like singing the anthem - the anthem doesn't go with sports.  It doesn't belong, and is a weird add-on.

 

If we sing the anthem before games because we love our country, why don't we sing it before we do other things that are equally unrelated to football?

 

Why don't we sing the anthem before we eat dinner?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we have sex?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we mow the lawn?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we start our work day?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we change our oil?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we go to bed?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we vote?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we buy a car?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we watch a movie?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we start church service?

 

 

Think about how weird it would be to do that before any of these events.  But they're all as unrelated to the anthem as sporting events.

  • Plus1 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

I love football and I love our country too. But I don't think those things go together. 

 

We sing the national anthem before every. single. game. College, Pro, High School.  Before every baseball game, every basketball game, blah blah blah. But while I love those games and I love my country - and I actually like singing the anthem - the anthem doesn't go with sports.  It doesn't belong, and is a weird add-on.

 

If we sing the anthem before games because we love our country, why don't we sing it before we do other things that are equally unrelated to football?

 

Why don't we sing the anthem before we eat dinner?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we have sex?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we mow the lawn?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we start our work day?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we change our oil?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we go to bed?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we vote?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we buy a car?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we watch a movie?

Why don't we sing the anthem before we start church service?

 

 

Think about how weird it would be to do that before any of these events.  But they're all as unrelated to the anthem as sporting events.

Dinner- Pray and thank the Lord

Don't love mowing the yard- Always celebrate with a beer

Work Day- Pledge of Allegiance

Dont love changing oil

Vote- Pray before voting

Dont enjoy buying a car or movie.

Church service always involves thankings emergency services and service troops around the world in our prayer time.  

Sex is always Neil Diamond Coming to America!!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Why don't we sing the anthem before we have sex?

 

Because some posters here are already bad at foreplay as it is.

 

Adding the anthem into it is just going to get more wives and husbands kneeling. 

Edited by VectorVictor
  • Plus1 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, khaake said:


Two questions:
1. Why are football games deemed appropriate venues for military recruitment?
2. I'm a little puzzled by your comment that one can't enjoy football if you don't like military advertising, unless you mean that because the military spends a lot of money on marketing for football games, etc., you can't get away from it? There isn't anything intrinsically militaristic to the game itself, other than what it being injected by the Department of Defense, is there? 

 

1. The large number of young males who watch/are involved in the sport. Their target demographic.

 

2. I was making a sarcastic joke referencing how heavily advertised the game of football is today. The military is hardly an offender compared to the soft drink companies and breweries for comparison as far as advertising goes. 

 

3. your second question had a third one tucked in it. The game of football has a considerable history with the military. One of college football's first dynasties is the military academy at west point (Army) who was dominant during WW II and the Korean war as well as being strong for a long time after. both institutions share similar values. Work ethic, discipline, goal driven, and a team oriented atmosphere. Thus football,  in their eyes produces ideal recruits as they share/are taught similar values. 

 

Add on this too this the state's and regions historically significant contribution in men and material in times of war, (the university does some small research jobs for the DOD, focusing on helmets for troops last I heard) and you can see why the military investment is so heavy in football. Especially at Nebraska and other states in out area who have a similar situation too our own.

  • Plus1 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×