Ric Flair Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, Cdog923 said: The second that a school district spend precious resources and funds buying firearms to arm teachers instead of spending it on students, in the classroom, or on appropriately paying teachers, is the day that 90% of the workforce goes on strike. An effort to protect kids makes a heck of a lot more sense than a heck of a lot of things school districts waste money on. Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Just now, Ric Flair said: An effort to protect kids makes a heck of a lot more sense than a heck of a lot of things school districts waste money on. Wouldn't we want the most sensible effort to protect the kids? I mean, there are lots of things we could do to protect kids. Make them all stay home and be schooled remotely. Put every school inside a military base & task the troops with, among their other duties, protecting kids. Build walls & moats around existing schools. Hire Blackwater security guards to patrol school grounds in full combat gear. OR We could implement reasonable bans on unnecessary firearms and strengthen our country's mental health fields so that not only is it much harder to acquire mass-killing guns, those who are least deserving of having them have the lowest level of access to them. Of all the options, the last one seems the most reasonable, most cost-effective, most likely to make our schools safer, and the least likely to fundamentally alter the fabric of our country. 3 Link to comment
Guy Chamberlin Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Do any of you have kids going to school? I do. For the last 10 years. In public school in ultra-liberal Marin County California. It's still reading, writing, and arithmetic. The same core emphasis as always. Nothing abandoned to make room for anal sex. There is a bit more "sensitivity" in teaching social studies and history, including the story of the missionaries colonizing California, which even 9 year olds realize was pretty screwed up and not quite as heroic as vintage textbooks liked to portray. While some call this "political correctness" it's just "correctness." The good news for conservatives is that those slashed public school budgets have curtailed much of the grade school science curriculum. We're working on it. At the end of 5th grade (and in 7th grade health) there is one week of one hour sex education classes. Any parent can choose to opt out. A few do. A very cool teacher answers every question as honestly as possible. The spectrum of human sexuality is discussed in non-judgmental fashion. Some kids are probably relieved. Some are no doubt confused. No one seems traumatized. At the end, the kids are reminded that they are entering puberty and will need to start using deodorant. Then they are given free deodorant. In the discussions that follow at school and at home, the kids are far more fascinated about starting to stink and using deodorant than they are sex. 7 Link to comment
Ric Flair Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 18 minutes ago, knapplc said: No, the SPLC is not a hate group, and no, they do not classify every conservative group as a hate group. Such hyperbole is self-defeating to your argument. The website itself links to the OPS curriculum, which I went to, read, and posted quotes from for you. If you would have done the same you would have realized that the website you used - the hate group site - was embellishing OPS' curriculum. While OPS may or may not have been readily forthcoming about this (even if this is correct and not another embellishment), it's very easy to understand why they would be cautious when reading the kind of lying nonsense people are posting in this very thread. I am not quibbling over anything. I am providing facts. 8th grade is not "grade school," and hysterically claiming it is - and misrepresenting what's being taught to kids - is another self-defeating argument you're posting. The easiest way to get around that is to do better research and provide actual facts, not hysteria or hate-group speech. 8th grade is grade school traditionally. Middle school is a fairly recent concept, that in many school systems doesn’t exist. Claiming I’m “hysterical” for saying that 8th grade is grade school is the type of nonsense spouted often in these disagreement. It’s far easier to characterize a political opponent as crazy, stupid, or evil, than to address the heart of the argument. But it’s lazy and intellectually dishonest. The SPLC is incredibly controversial, as is their methodology for determining what constitutes a “hate group.” Oppose gay marriage and they call you an anti-LGBT hate group. Support enforcing immigration laws or stronger border security and you’re an anti-immigrant bigot. But Black Lives Matter, Antifa, and any number of other left-wing groups that openly espouse violence are not mentioned. It’s a ridiculously biased and partisan joke. There is simply no need to “embellish” what OPS is doing, its ridiculousness speaks for itself. But rather than even attempting to defend it, by all means, keep accusing me of embellishment, hyperbole, coting informaion from hate groups, etc. That’s par for the course for someone who’s losing an argument. Link to comment
Ric Flair Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, knapplc said: Wouldn't we want the most sensible effort to protect the kids? I mean, there are lots of things we could do to protect kids. Make them all stay home and be schooled remotely. Put every school inside a military base & task the troops with, among their other duties, protecting kids. Build walls & moats around existing schools. Hire Blackwater security guards to patrol school grounds in full combat gear. OR We could implement reasonable bans on unnecessary firearms and strengthen our country's mental health fields so that not only is it much harder to acquire mass-killing guns, those who are least deserving of having them have the lowest level of access to them. Of all the options, the last one seems the most reasonable, most cost-effective, most likely to make our schools safer, and the least likely to fundamentally alter the fabric of our country. OR we could implement some combination of each of those ideas and see what works. Why can’t we try to prevent crazy people from owning the most dangerous weapons AND have armed guards at schools? Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: Public schools have become a joke in part because they are now used to force feed a particular ideology rather than to simply teach kids to read, write, etc. You haven’t seen ANYONE in the media advocating a simple gun ban? I’ve seen several making that argument. I have not seen anyone advocate for a complete gun ban and having the government go from door to door confiscating all publicly held guns. Can you bring up an article that discusses this as an option? Edited February 22, 2018 by BigRedBuster Link to comment
TheSker Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 12 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: My apology. I should have said I didn't intend that single question as a discussion item. I meant my post to be about discernment. Link to comment
Ric Flair Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said: Do any of you have kids going to school? I do. For the last 10 years. In public school in ultra-liberal Marin County California. It's still reading, writing, and arithmetic. The same core emphasis as always. Nothing abandoned to make room for anal sex. There is a bit more "sensitivity" in teaching social studies and history, including the story of the missionaries colonizing California, which even 9 year olds realize was pretty screwed up and not quite as heroic as vintage textbooks liked to portray. While some call this "political correctness" it's just "correctness." The good news for conservatives is that those slashed public school budgets have curtailed much of the grade school science curriculum. We're working on it. At the end of 5th grade (and in 7th grade health) there is one week of one hour sex education classes. Any parent can choose to opt out. A few do. A very cool teacher answers every question as honestly as possible. The spectrum of human sexuality is discussed in non-judgmental fashion. Some kids are probably relieved. Some are no doubt confused. No one seems traumatized. At the end, the kids are reminded that they are entering puberty and will need to start using deodorant. Then they are given free deodorant. In the discussions that follow at school and at home, the kids are far more fascinated about starting to stink and using deodorant than they are sex. How strange then that OPS’ efforts at teaching sexual education are so much more extreme than Marin County’s. Link to comment
Ric Flair Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: I have not seen anyone advocate for a complete gun ban and having the government go from door to door confiscating all publicly held guns. Can you bring up an article that discusses this as an option? Well that took roughly 5 seconds to find and post. https://newrepublic.com/article/125498/its-time-ban-guns-yes-them 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Ric Flair said: 8th grade is grade school traditionally. Nope. It's been Junior High for decades, recently Middle School. It is not, at least for several generations, "grade school." Just stop being factually incorrect, repeatedly, and you won't come across as hysterical. Keep reiterating that false point and... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The SPLC is less controversial than the website you cited. If you're going to claim they're not reliable, check and fix your own sources first. Not every institution that opposes gay marriage is labeled a "hate group" by the SLPC, and claiming such a thing is true is, again, factually incorrect. You are embellishing, or outright lying, if you prefer, what OPS is doing, because you're relying on a hate group's website for your source. Provide better sources, specifically from OPS themselves (the information is out there if you're not too lazy to get it). Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Ric Flair said: Well that took roughly 5 seconds to find and post. https://newrepublic.com/article/125498/its-time-ban-guns-yes-them I must have missed the part where the government is going to go door to door forcibly taking them all. Have to admit, I skimmed it quickly. Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: OR we could implement some combination of each of those ideas and see what works. Why can’t we try to prevent crazy people from owning the most dangerous weapons AND have armed guards at schools? I'm not saying we can't have armed guards at schools. That's simply not the most effective solution, not the solution that any other first-world country does, and there is no evidence that armed guards at schools will prevent, stop, or even slow down the rate at which gun violence occurs at schools. There was an armed guard on campus at the time of the Parkland shooting. He was ineffective at stopping the killer from ending 17 lives. Armed guards are not necessarily the answer. 2 Link to comment
Ric Flair Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, knapplc said: Nope. It's been Junior High for decades, recently Middle School. It is not, at least for several generations, "grade school." Just stop being factually incorrect, repeatedly, and you won't come across as hysterical. Keep reiterating that false point and... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The SPLC is less controversial than the website you cited. If you're going to claim they're not reliable, check and fix your own sources first. Not every institution that opposes gay marriage is labeled a "hate group" by the SLPC, and claiming such a thing is true is, again, factually incorrect. You are embellishing, or outright lying, if you prefer, what OPS is doing, because you're relying on a hate group's website for your source. Provide better sources, specifically from OPS themselves (the information is out there if you're not too lazy to get it). Yawn. My kids go to private school. 8th grade is in the same building and there neither a separate junior high nor a middle school. It’s the same thing in many small towns. We’re all clear what we’re talking about. It’s also clear that you’d rather quibble over the definition of “grade school” than address what OPS is actually doing. The SPLC is incredibly controversial for the reasons I stated. They include conservative groups they simply disagree with as hate groups. I apologize if You simply don’t know that because Rachel Maddow has never mentioned it to you. There aren’t great sources from OPS directly, because the curriculum is controversial and they would prefer the parents not know the details. That was a source of major controversy when the curriculum was being debated. OPS was intentionally vague and refused to provide details. Link to comment
Ric Flair Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 8 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: I must have missed the part where the government is going to go door to door forcibly taking them all. Have to admit, I skimmed it quickly. Yeah, so explain how you ban guns across the board without dealing with the more than 300 million people have in their homes... I suppose you could ask them nicely to come and hand them over. I see that working... LOL Link to comment
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