The Angry Violent Right

[Archy1221]

43 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

He specifically said Archy was making claims "I believe you initiated the discussion by claiming moderates were climbing aboared the DeSantis train." (sic)

@RedDenver never lets facts get in the way of his narrative about what I post.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, DevoHusker said:

 

He specifically said Archy was making claims "I believe you initiated the discussion by claiming moderates were climbing aboared the DeSantis train." (sic)

 

Okay. Now I'm confused.

 

Red Denver put the two posts together, and my "claim" that Archy considered DeSantis the moderate option Devo was looking for looks pretty unambiguous.

 

Are the two of you now suggesting otherwise? I mean, beyond the train metaphor, which I was happy to throttle?

 

The rest of my claim is pretty unambiguous, too. Ron DeSantis defined his Congressional career by co-founding and running media point for the Freedom Caucus, which existed precisely to identify the hard right wing of the Republican Party, and promote some of the more controversial positions (and talking points) on gun rights, criminal reform, immigration, etc. As Governor he advanced a few positions that listed moderate, but given the politics of the moment, he went all-in as a Trump loyalist, and as a 2024 opportunist he is pandering to a base that has vowed to oust RINOs and moderates. If a Republican is looking for an alternative to the hot mess left by Donald Trump and a return to a more moderate GOP, Ron DeSantis would need to say and do some things a lot differently. Hence, "recant."

 

Who knows. He just might evolve that way --- if that's the way the wind is blowing over the next three years.  He could be the Smarter Trump some are looking for. But that's hardly the moderating force many in this thread say they would prefer. DeSantis has offered a glimmer of hope on climate change. Maybe that would be a place to start.

 

The reason I asked for a moderate benchmark is because a lot of Republicans say they'd like to return to the party of Ronald Reagan. Reagan would indeed be a moderate in 2021, probably unelectable by the flame-throwing standards in practice today. But by 20th Century standards, Reagan WAS the right wing of the GOP, never, ever considered a moderate. That's how far the line has moved. 

[RedDenver]

3 hours ago, DevoHusker said:

 

He specifically said Archy was making claims "I believe you initiated the discussion by claiming moderates were climbing aboared the DeSantis train." (sic)

What are you even arguing? That Archy didn't imply DeSantis was a moderate, or that Archy didn't initiate that line of discussion? Or are you suggesting Guy should have said "should be" instead of "were"?

[DevoHusker]

35 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Okay. Now I'm confused.

 

Red Denver put the two posts together, and my "claim" that Archy considered DeSantis the moderate option Devo was looking for looks pretty unambiguous.

 

Are the two of you now suggesting otherwise? I mean, beyond the train metaphor, which I was happy to throttle?

 

The rest of my claim is pretty unambiguous, too. Ron DeSantis defined his Congressional career by co-founding and running media point for the Freedom Caucus, which existed precisely to identify the hard right wing of the Republican Party, and promote some of the more controversial positions (and talking points) on gun rights, criminal reform, immigration, etc. As Governor he advanced a few positions that listed moderate, but given the politics of the moment, he went all-in as a Trump loyalist, and as a 2024 opportunist he is pandering to a base that has vowed to oust RINOs and moderates. If a Republican is looking for an alternative to the hot mess left by Donald Trump and a return to a more moderate GOP, Ron DeSantis would need to say and do some things a lot differently. Hence, "recant."

 

Who knows. He just might evolve that way --- if that's the way the wind is blowing over the next three years.  He could be the Smarter Trump some are looking for. But that's hardly the moderating force many in this thread say they would prefer. DeSantis has offered a glimmer of hope on climate change. Maybe that would be a place to start.

 

The reason I asked for a moderate benchmark is because a lot of Republicans say they'd like to return to the party of Ronald Reagan. Reagan would indeed be a moderate in 2021, probably unelectable by the flame-throwing standards in practice today. But by 20th Century standards, Reagan WAS the right wing of the GOP, never, ever considered a moderate. That's how far the line has moved. 

 

Regarding the back and forth with @Archy1221, you said that he "initiated" the talk of people backing DeSantis' moderation. He simply responded to my post by saying "get on board". He made no claims nor gave any reference points. It looks to me, that is the point of disconnect between the two of you.

 

Regarding the rest of your post, where you see DeSantis as controversial on gun rights, criminal reform, immigration and climate change, that may be your view from the left, but what many fail to realize is those stances are not controversial for many conservatives. Several have posted here that Trump's demeanor and shiftiness/sliminess are what led him to be voted down...not necessarily his policies or positions on some of those same issues. 

 

I think DeSantis can garner a lot of backing by simply not being an a$$hat. Ardent Trump followers could be swayed in the next 3 years to "change trains"...

especially if Trump catches an indictment or two, even without a conviction.  As the article from The Hill points out:

 

Before the pandemic, it was hard for some to imagine DeSantis as a blue-collar kid who worked his way through Yale, graduated with honors from Harvard Law School and served in the U.S. Navy. Maybe it took the emergency of the virus to remind DeSantis himself that he did have that life experience to call upon.

[RedDenver]

1 minute ago, DevoHusker said:

Regarding the rest of your post, where you see DeSantis as controversial on gun rights, criminal reform, immigration and climate change, that may be your view from the left, but what many fail to realize is those stances are not controversial for many conservatives.

Yeah, DeSantis is definitely right-wing/conservative, but that doesn't make him "moderate", which is what you claimed you were looking for.

[knapplc]

5 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

Regarding the rest of your post, where you see DeSantis as controversial on gun rights, criminal reform, immigration and climate change, that may be your view from the left, but what many fail to realize is those stances are not controversial for many conservatives.

 

The Green New Deal is not controversial to left-wingers. 

[DevoHusker]

Just now, RedDenver said:

Yeah, DeSantis is definitely right-wing/conservative, but that doesn't make him "moderate", which is what you claimed you were looking for.

 

I still am, and will listen to any of them interested in running. But as of this "way to early" 2024 candidate talk, there are no other moderates (other than DeSantis regardless of his actual place on the spectrum) being discussed.

[DevoHusker]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

The Green New Deal is not controversial to left-wingers. 

 

Exactly.

[RedDenver]

Just now, DevoHusker said:

 

I still am, and will listen to any of them interested in running. But as of this "way to early" 2024 candidate talk, there are no other moderates (other than DeSantis regardless of his actual place on the spectrum) being discussed.

Do you see DeSantis as the kind of moderate you were looking for?

[DevoHusker]

Just now, RedDenver said:

Do you see DeSantis as the kind of moderate you were looking for?

 

I wouldn't classify him as moderate at this stage.

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

I still am, and will listen to any of them interested in running. But as of this "way to early" 2024 candidate talk, there are no other moderates (other than DeSantis regardless of his actual place on the spectrum) being discussed.

 

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would be a good moderate for you to consider if she ran.  

 

EDITED IN LIGHT OF THE ABOVE POST, POSTED AT THE SAME TIME AS MINE

 

It seemed as though you were making the case for DeSantis as a moderate. 

[DevoHusker]

Just now, knapplc said:

 

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would be a good moderate for you to consider if she ran.

 

Thanks, never heard of her...I will check her out. 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 minute ago, DevoHusker said:

 

Regarding the back and forth with @Archy1221, you said that he "initiated" the talk of people backing DeSantis' moderation. He simply responded to my post by saying "get on board". He made no claims nor gave any reference points. It looks to me, that is the point of disconnect between the two of you.

 

 

This is already going on too long, but it is actually impossible to review the exchange between you and Archy and not conclude that he initiated an endorsement of Ron DeSantis in response to your wish for a more moderate GOP option.

 

The rest is about how we define the term "moderate," a word you introduced into the discussion. 

 

Neither you nor Archy were in any way misrepresented by subsequent posts.

 

I respect your follow up post outlining what you like and what might work for DeSantis. Of the latter, we are in agreement. 

[knapplc]

Sorry. I may have misinterpreted what you were saying, @DevoHusker

 

I think we can all agree neither DeSantis nor AOC are moderates. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

6 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

The Green New Deal is not controversial to left-wingers. 

 

But I would never call it a moderate position. 

 

As a reference point:  Obamacare is the very model of moderation. Like it or not.