The Right to Carry a Gun

[BigRedBuster]

3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

I'll stick by the actual facts.

So....someone who plots, buys guns and ammo to walk into a Walmart in Texas and shoots a bunch of people are perfectly healthy mentally.

 

Hmmmm......gotta disagree.  But...hey.....to each their own.  

[Nebfanatic]

1 hour ago, Redux said:

 

And your proposal to do that is what exactly?  Make it harder to legally obtain a gun, right?

 

I could counter with "Well people can still illegally obtain one, felons do it all the time" or I could explain how I'm totally in favor of that, which I have many times before.

 

My issue here is the people looking at this as solely a firearms problem are ignoring that wr as a people in this country have serious issues, mentally related or not.  And people only choose to ignore that because it doesn't help with the "guns are bad, mmmkay" narrative.

The thing is there are a whole host of other issues related to firearms that cannot be explained away with these serious issue you speak of. Accidental discharge especially with young children is a major issue that is a direct result of ease of access. I don't understand the point in making gun violence a mental health issue when an effective solution can be found just by focusing on the guns 

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

So....someone who plots, buys guns and ammo to walk into a Walmart in Texas and shoots a bunch of people are perfectly healthy mentally.

 

Hmmmm......gotta disagree.  But...hey.....to each their own.  

 

That's what the facts show.

[Redux]

4 minutes ago, knapplc said:

That's what the facts show.

 

You honestly believe, that people committing mass murder on citizens, are mostly mentally healthy.....it's the availability of a gun that they decided on a whim to go murder a bunch of people.

 

For realzies?

[Moiraine]

I think availability of guns is by far the biggest factor when it comes to shootings and mass shootings, but I think anyone who commits a mass shooting is mentally ill, diagnosed or not.

 

However I do think it’s possible to kill someone and have no mental illness. If anyone hurts someone I love I could kill them and have nothing wrong with me. 

[BigRedBuster]

12 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

However I do think it’s possible to kill someone and have no mental illness. If anyone hurts someone I love I could kill them and have nothing wrong with me. 

 

As I mentioned in a post a while ago, I would clarify that as temporarily mentally unstable.  

[Nebfanatic]

16 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

As I mentioned in a post a while ago, I would clarify that as temporarily mentally unstable.  

Ok but what does all of this do to solve the problem? People have been driven homicidal since the beginning of time, we can't stop that. 

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, Nebfanatic said:

Ok but what does all of this do to solve the problem? People have been driven homicidal since the beginning of time, we can't stop that. 

I've known people who have had severe loss and they are so overwhelmed that they can't think straight.  They get help. The worst cases are admitted for observation and help.  Some just get counseling.  

 

But, I could see someone in that situation acting out against someone violently if they aren't helped.  Not just because of murders or mass shootings, but we need improved mental health care in this country bad.

[teachercd]

In two of the best designed studies, investigators from the University of Oxford analyzed data from a Swedish registry of hospital admissions and criminal convictions. (In Sweden, every individual has a unique personal identification number that allowed the investigators to determine how many people with mental illness were convicted of crimes and then compare them with a matched group of controls.) In separate studies, the investigators found that people with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia were more likely — to a modest but statistically significant degree — to commit assaults or other violent crimes when compared with people in the general population. Differences in the rates of violence narrowed, however, when the researchers compared patients with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia with their unaffected siblings. This suggested that shared genetic vulnerability or common elements of social environment, such as poverty and early exposure to violence, were at least partially responsible for violent behavior. However, rates of violence increased dramatically in those with a dual diagnosis (see "Rates of violence compared").

[teachercd]

Also, don't forget that in 1979 there was no such thing as PTSD...you were just told to "suck it up" but in 1980...guess what, mental health disorder!

 

1979...not eating for days...heck you just wanted to be skinny!  But wait...in 1980...Anorexia became a mental health disorder!

 

 

Poster (December 1979):  "Wow Karen Carpenter, you look amazing!  I can see all your bones, You totally know what you are doing.

 

Same Poster (Jan 1980):  "Wow, that Karen Carpenter really needs help, did you know she has a new mental health disorder, yeah, anorexia, poor thing.  Sucks for her too because just a month ago she looked AMAZING.

 

[BigRedBuster]

5 minutes ago, teachercd said:

In two of the best designed studies, investigators from the University of Oxford analyzed data from a Swedish registry of hospital admissions and criminal convictions. (In Sweden, every individual has a unique personal identification number that allowed the investigators to determine how many people with mental illness were convicted of crimes and then compare them with a matched group of controls.) In separate studies, the investigators found that people with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia were more likely — to a modest but statistically significant degree — to commit assaults or other violent crimes when compared with people in the general population. Differences in the rates of violence narrowed, however, when the researchers compared patients with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia with their unaffected siblings. This suggested that shared genetic vulnerability or common elements of social environment, such as poverty and early exposure to violence, were at least partially responsible for violent behavior. However, rates of violence increased dramatically in those with a dual diagnosis (see "Rates of violence compared").

 

So...exposure to violence and other environmental aspects changes the mental stability of the person and makes them more susceptible to committing violence.

[teachercd]

1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

So...exposure to violence and other environmental aspects changes the mental stability of the person and makes them more susceptible to committing violence.

Yeah, well, in comparison to their crazy siblings.

 

So basically, crazy people with two factors (being nuts and substance abuse) are more likely to commit violent crime.

 

And if their non-crazy siblings witness violence or other things that change their non-crazy brain, it can now make them more crazy and more likely to hurt people.  

 

But this was from U of Oxford...total party school.

[teachercd]

Personality disorders. Borderline personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, conduct disorder, and other personality disorders often manifest in aggression or violence. When a personality disorder occurs in conjunction with another psychiatric disorder, the combination may also increase risk of violent behavior (as suggested by the CATIE study, above).

Nature of symptoms. Patients with paranoid delusions, command hallucinations, and florid psychotic thoughts may be more likely to become violent than other patients. For clinicians, it is important to understand the patient's own perception of psychotic thoughts, because this may reveal when a patient may feel compelled to fight back.

Age and gender. Young people are more likely than older adults to act violently. In addition, men are more likely than women to act violently.

Social stress. People who are poor or homeless, or otherwise have a low socioeconomic status, are more likely than others to become violent.

Personal stress, crisis, or loss. Unemployment, divorce, or separation in the past year increases a patient's risk of violence. People who were victims of violent crime in the past year are also more likely to assault someone.

Early exposure. The risk of violence rises with exposure to aggressive family fights during childhood, physical abuse by a parent, or having a parent with a criminal record.

 

My thoughts:  Stress is a big one and it makes people do crazy things (it f#&%s with your mental health), The other ones all speak for themselves.  I do think that women are more violent though, I just think that men suck at controlling it and women are way better at controlling it.  Shoot, we can't even visit a women's prison for a school field trip but we can visit a mens prison.

[BigRedBuster]

9 minutes ago, teachercd said:

Yeah, well, in comparison to their crazy siblings.

 

So basically, crazy people with two factors (being nuts and substance abuse) are more likely to commit violent crime.

 

And if their non-crazy siblings witness violence or other things that change their non-crazy brain, it can now make them more crazy and more likely to hurt people.  

 

But this was from U of Oxford...total party school.

Well....we are always told that drug addiction is an illness.

[teachercd]

6 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Well....we are always told that drug addiction is an illness.

Ahhhh, yes.

 

Remember though...at one time it was not an illness!  Then, it changed!

 

 

And I am as anti-gun as they come...and I have never looked at NRA stuff.  But I know this...if you go out to buy a gun for the sole reason of killing someone...you got some crazy in you.