The Right to Carry a Gun

[teachercd]

7 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

Please, please, please set my mind at ease and acknowledge that it is not normal behavior for a person to commit one of these mass shootings.

 

Yes, easy access makes it more likely and is responsible for the higher occurrence in this country as compared to other countries. I know this and I can acknowledge it. 

 

Im not saying it’s mental illness. I’m not blaming our country’s problem on mental illness. I’m simply saying that our laws and gun culture supply the environment that makes the occurrence here higher. But there are obviously other issues that cause people to want to kill a bunch of people.

He literally painted himself into a corner by saying mental illness has nothing to do with it, while everyone else is saying that it is not normal to go kill people.

 

Then he tried using an example of saying listening to Pantera is just as good of a reason as to why people kill...little did he know that he finished the paint job when it was pointed out that their lead singer was literally shot and killed while performing on stage by...wait for it...a mentally ill person.

 

Facts have been provided but not the facts that he would like to see.

 

You probably have a gun, a lot of our posters have guns, yet, they don't go kill anyone, why is that?  I mean, you have access to guns, why aren't you killing people.  

 

Then he says American's have a fetish for guns...another corner...fetishes are known as a disorder, a mental one...a strong attachment to sexual arousal (even with an inanimate) object. (I have some, don't get me wrong, wink)

 

You think there are people that treat their guns better than they treat their friends or family and hold them, caress them, clean them non stop and dream about the damage that they can do with them?   Yep!  Nuts!

 

 

Everyone has already said stricter gun laws are fine, I ever said to get rid of all of them, fine with me!  

 

 

[knapplc]

Just now, BigRedBuster said:

I have said multiple times that their is something is seriously wrong with someone who commits mass shootings ALONG WITH way too easy of access to a mass supply of guns in this country. 
 

You conveniently leave out that last part. 

 

If you want to fix the problem of gun violence, you can't keep pounding the drumbeat of mental health as a culprit. At some point you have to address the FAR LARGER problems of culture and ease of access.

[NM11046]

10 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

Thank you.

 

What I have been trying to do, and so far have been unable, is to get one of the people in here who is stuck solely on easy access and gun worship culture to admit that there are other things apparently occuring in our society that actually cause these people to go shoot up a mall/school/theatre. It's my position that easy access makes it possible and more likely to occur but there are more significant structural problems other than gun laws that we should also be dealing with.

 

Would adopting stricter gun laws and making access tougher reduce the problem in this country? Sure it would. There is tons of data showing this works in other countries. But I maintain that easy access to guns is NOT what causes people to want to shoot a bunch of other people. There is something else going on with those people. I'm not saying it's all mental illness but it is something in their upbringing, schooling, society or heads that is causing them to lash out because it is not normal behavior to want to kill a bunch of people. Easy access to guns makes it more likely and more possible but it isn't the core cause. I have easy access to guns and I've never shot anyone. This may seem simplistic but I don't believe we have to accept whatever it is in society that is turning these people into mass murderers.

 

And I resent the veiled accusations that I have been repeating NRA talking points about mental illness. I hate the NRA. I don't receive or read their propaganda. IMO this country would be much better off without their ilk lobbying and paying off our elected officials. But until they go away and we have a chance to tweak our gun laws I think it would be wise for us as a country to also identify the real issues that are causing increasing numbers of people to go shoot 20+ people. I think we stand a better chance of addressing those issues in the near term than we do of adopting European type gun laws.

Yeah - don't get me wrong, the first thing I'd do is gun control, but to think there's not a multi-prong problem, that needs a multi-prong solution is naiive.

 

My simple order of change would be:

1. Dissolve NRA
2. Nationwide health insurance coverage to include mental health & addiction coverage for all
3. Ban the sale of guns - yes all, until we can get new laws in place
4. Gun buy-back program nationwide
5. Confiscate all high volocity guns
6. Create new laws, some I'd like to see might involve:  

• limit number of guns that can be manufactured for private use
• limit the sale of guns to a handful of LICENSED, approved sellers who must go through training and reliscensing annually - set up a 3 strike rule for them as sellers
• increase the price of bullets
• create a program for training and licensing of gun owners - renewable annually
• insist on insurance for gun owners for personal liability to accidents and injury
• allow the ability to sue gun manufacturers for deaths
• nationwide red flag law goes into effect
• deny gun ownership to anyone who has domestic violence accusations/convictions
• put into place a 3-6 month wait period between gun request and possession
• background checks
• obtain research showing relation to gun violence to sales, mental health etc - I think this will start this year, sadly it will take a few years of data for any sort of moves to be made, especially with NRA and GOP Senate
• training for teachers, places of employment, government agencies on how to spot disgruntled employees and a safe reporting system to get those folks interviewed, evaluated and potentially on a watch list

I think until we get data we can't make a plan to acknowledge the mental health aspect, but I do think a crime of passion/need (robbery for drugs/gang hit) is different than domestic violence and they're both different from mass shootings.  But the first, most easily done action is to get rid of and limit guns, make those that possess them see it as a benefit they earn not a right, and make it a commitment to be allowed to own one, both financially and via training and licensing.

 

[JJ Husker]

4 minutes ago, teachercd said:

He literally painted himself into a corner by saying mental illness has nothing to do with it, while everyone else is saying that it is not normal to go kill people.

 

Then he tried using an example of saying listening to Pantera is just as good of a reason as to why people kill...little did he know that he finished the paint job when it was pointed out that their lead singer was literally shot and killed while performing on stage by...wait for it...a mentally ill person.

 

Facts have been provided but not the facts that he would like to see.

 

You probably have a gun, a lot of our posters have guns, yet, they don't go kill anyone, why is that?  I mean, you have access to guns, why aren't you killing people.  

 

Then he says American's have a fetish for guns...another corner...fetishes are known as a disorder, a mental one...a strong attachment to sexual arousal (even with an inanimate) object. (I have some, don't get me wrong, wink)

 

You think there are people that treat their guns better than they treat their friends or family and hold them, caress them, clean them non stop and dream about the damage that they can do with them?   Yep!  Nuts!

 

 

Everyone has already said stricter gun laws are fine, I ever said to get rid of all of them, fine with me!  

 

 

Yep. It's not any way to go about having an open and honest conversation. When a person can't agree with and admit glaringly obvious and simple things. It's as if there is some other purpose or agenda for participating. Very frustrating.

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, JJ Husker said:

Yep. It's not any way to go about having an open and honest conversation. When a person can't agree with and admit glaringly obvious and simple things. It's as if there is some other purpose or agenda for participating. Very frustrating.

 

"Everyone thinks so" is not any kind of factual basis to support an argument.

 

Mental health is not remotely the biggest factor in the gun control problem. No studies show it, and in fact show the opposite.

 

It's like you didn't read any of the links I posted, just continued to believe what you feel is right.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[BigRedBuster]

No.....I’m fine discussing the entire issue which includes why people feel the need for carrying out these acts ....along with the supply of guns. 

[teachercd]

25 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

Yep. It's not any way to go about having an open and honest conversation. When a person can't agree with and admit glaringly obvious and simple things. It's as if there is some other purpose or agenda for participating. Very frustrating.

No kidding, this is really not all that difficult.

 

 

 

[commando]

i think maybe we let everyone buy any gun they want....but they need to apply for a special permit to buy the bullets.  

 

that might keep those drones flying over colorado and nebraska safe.

[teachercd]

1 hour ago, commando said:

i think maybe we let everyone buy any gun they want....but they need to apply for a special permit to buy the bullets.  

 

that might keep those drones flying over colorado and nebraska safe.

I kind of want to see these drones now.

[Redux]

6 minutes ago, teachercd said:

I kind of want to see these drones now.

 

They are probably just AI Defective and too easily obtained propellers.

 

3 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

"Everyone thinks so" is not any kind of factual basis to support an argument.

 

Mental health is not remotely the biggest factor in the gun control problem. No studies show it, and in fact show the opposite.

 

It's like you didn't read any of the links I posted, just continued to believe what you feel is right.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Is this what's it like when I refuse to budge from a bad opinion I share?

[knapplc]

People should lose their right to gun ownership if they are careless.

 

 

[Redux]

Yes they should, but most cases of gun theft aren't this blatantly negligent.

[teachercd]

1 hour ago, knapplc said:

People should lose their right to gun ownership if they are careless.

 

 

No kidding...I think there should be criminal charges for something like this.  

[knapplc]

2 hours ago, Redux said:

Is this what's it like when I refuse to budge from a bad opinion I share?

 

If you think the problem is that you're (I'm) not communicating your (my) point properly, then maybe?

 

I don't think I'm wrong about any of the conversation. I feel like my ability to make my point is lacking. But so it goes.

[RedDenver]

17 hours ago, Nebfanatic said:

To be fair, I don't think they did. I think it's our interpretation of what they wrote that goes too far on this subject. A well regulated militia is a far cry from what gun ownership is today.

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