Will There Be a 2020 Football Season?

[84HuskerLaw]

1 minute ago, WyoHusker56 said:

 

Pull your shirt over your mouth and spit into it and tell me how effective it is at stopping the spit? The mask, regardless of what it is made of, is supposed to stop the saliva that you cough/sneeze/breeze out which contains the virus which is a lot larger than the virus itself.

In deed this is true. But large gobs of spit is not the problem. It is the tiny particles exhaled or inhaled that are the issue.  Ive read the 2% effectiveness from numerous medical sources.  Fauci himself said as much back in March.  They are better than nothing but not much.  Its too late imo. 

[knapplc]

5 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

       https://time.com/5813628/china-coronavirus-statistics-wuhan/

 

I don't believe it has.

 

Hong Kong. Not China. HONG KONG.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2020/06/28/coronavirus-hong-kong-face-masks-work-column/3262969001/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china-hong-kong-sar/

[Hilltop]

I understand that everyone wants to point to something that works.  I'm in that same boat.  I just don't see any solution other than herd immunity.  None of us wants to see people die unnecessarily but many of us also don't believe in the current strategies.  I do think a mask, just about any mask, will slow this down.  I however don't believe that will change the end result and I think it may cost our country more in lives, money, and world status by the time it's over.  It stinks but it's here to stay.  Learn to live with it just like all the other bad things we have grown accustomed to.  And let those boys play football - I know they want to.     

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, Hilltop said:

I just don't see any solution other than herd immunity. 

 

There.

Is.

No.

Evidence.

Herd.

Immunity.

Works.

With.

This.

Disease.

 

Wear a mask.

[RedDenver]

2 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

I understand that everyone wants to point to something that works.  I'm in that same boat.  I just don't see any solution other than herd immunity.  None of us wants to see people die unnecessarily but many of us also don't believe in the current strategies.  I do think a mask, just about any mask, will slow this down.  I however don't believe that will change the end result and I think it may cost our country more in lives, money, and world status by the time it's over.  It stinks but it's here to stay.  Learn to live with it just like all the other bad things we have grown accustomed to.  And let those boys play football - I know they want to.     

There's dozens of other countries that have controlled the virus, so other solutions absolutely work.

 

Plus herd immunity may not work for this virus.

[WyoHusker56]

3 minutes ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

In deed this is true. But large gobs of spit is not the problem. It is the tiny particles exhaled or inhaled that are the issue.  Ive read the 2% effectiveness from numerous medical sources.  Fauci himself said as much back in March.  They are better than nothing but not much.  Its too late imo. 

 

Here's the great thing about science, when they are presented with new evidence they change their minds. Fauci has changed his mind on a lot of things since March because he has new information. So, here you go...

 

Quote

 

Evidence for Effectiveness of Cloth Face Coverings

Cloth face coverings are recommended as a simple barrier to help prevent respiratory droplets from traveling into the air and onto other people when the person wearing the cloth face covering coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice. This is called source control. This recommendation is based on what we know about the role respiratory droplets play in the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19, paired with emerging evidence from clinical and laboratory studies that shows cloth face coverings reduce the spray of droplets when worn over the nose and mouth. COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet), so the use of cloth face coverings is particularly important in settings where people are close to each other or where social distancing is difficult to maintain

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html

 

See that bolded part? It reduces respiratory DROPLETS that play a role in the spread. The virus is contained within your saliva and mucus and masks, even cloth masks, help stop that. Click on that emerging evidence link and check out the 16 studies that have shown the effectiveness of masks.

[84HuskerLaw]

6 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

There.

Is.

No.

Evidence.

Herd.

Immunity.

Works.

With.

This.

Disease.

 

Wear a mask.

One final point.  It so happens I do wear a mask whenever I go out here in NY state.  Not because I think it works.  But because our elected leaders mandate it.  I and about 1/4th of my fellow citizens. 

The rest realized it wont matter ultimately so why bother.  

My best guess - cause nobody knows - is probably 50% of New Yorkers have already had it.  This NY numbers have dropped a bunch.  Other states not so high.  If only we knew.  

[knapplc]

Just now, 84HuskerLaw said:

One final point.  It so happens I do wear a mask whenever I go out here in NY state.  Not because I think it works.  But because our elected leaders mandate it.  I and about 1/4th of my fellow citizens. 

The rest realized it wont matter ultimately so why bother.  

 

How would "the rest" know if it will matter or not? Are they epidemiologists?

[Jason Sitoke]

9 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

There.

Is.

No.

Evidence.

Herd.

Immunity.

Works.

With.

This.

Disease.

 

Wear a mask.

With you (and all sane people) on the mask thing. But why exactly do you say there is no evidence hers immunity will ‘work’?  

[Hilltop]

8 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

There.

Is.

No.

Evidence.

Herd.

Immunity.

Works.

With.

This.

Disease.

 

Wear a mask.

So why is the entire world busy developing a vaccine?  A vaccine is intended to speed up herd immunity.  If there is no immune response, there is no chance that a vaccine can even work.  

[RedDenver]

Just now, Jason Sitoke said:

With you (and all sane people) on the mask thing. But why exactly do you say there is no evidence hers immunity will ‘work’?  

Because there hasn't been enough research done on people who have had covid-19 yet.

[knapplc]

Just now, Jason Sitoke said:

But why exactly do you say there is no evidence hers immunity will ‘work’?  

 

Because there is no evidence. And that has to be qualified with "yet" because it may turn out that herd immunity is a thing.

 

The disease is too new for anyone to make conclusive statements about its effects. We know some things work, like quarantining and wearing masks.

 

For the record, I hope herd immunity is a thing. That would be the best-case scenario. But relying on it now when we have no idea if it's a thing is a fool's bet.

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

So why is the entire world busy developing a vaccine?  A vaccine is intended to speed up herd immunity.  If there is no immune response, there is no chance that a vaccine can even work.  

 

You haven't been talking about vaccines in the posts about herd immunity that I'm responding to. You've been referring to herd immunity as, let everyone get it and build up their immune system. That's not known to be a real thing. 

[FrantzHardySwag]

6 minutes ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

It is the tiny particles exhaled or inhaled that are the issue.  Ive read the 2% effectiveness from numerous medical sources

Two things; 1. droplets are larger when they leave the mouth; hence the mask isn't for me, its for you. Once the droplet is in the air, it's smaller, why everyone should wear them. 2. I've never seen a number as low as 2%. I get that different studies say different things. Heres a great resource for you comparing different materials. In this study cotton is north of 50% effective at filtering droplets of a certain size (6 micrometers, which is a fairly small droplet size). I've even read from Johns Hopkins that at the smallest droplet size, cloth masks are 20% effective (vs 95% wearing an n95) - but even then that's 10x better than the 2% you're quoting.

 

sources:

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252

https://www.jhsph.edu/research/centers-and-institutes/johns-hopkins-education-and-research-center-for-occupational-safety-and-health/can-a-mask-protect-me-putting-homemade-masks-in-the-hierarchy-of-controls

[RedDenver]

1 minute ago, Hilltop said:

So why is the entire world busy developing a vaccine?  A vaccine is intended to speed up herd immunity.  If there is no immune response, there is no chance that a vaccine can even work.  

It's possible that a vaccine won't work, but it's also possible a vaccine will work to trigger a sufficient immune response while getting the virus may not.

 

Some coronaviruses in the past have resulted in no herd immunity while others have. In particular the coronaviruses that were more severe like SARS and MERS produced strong immunity that lasted for years while less severe ones had immunity that only lasted a few months. I'll try to find the article I read that describes this.