The George Floyd/Black Lives Matter protests and police conduct

[Moiraine]

I did some reading on rubber bullets and they are not supposed to be shot straight at people, they are supposed to be bounced off the ground. On top of that they are not supposed to be used at short distances.

[RedDenver]

 

[TGHusker]

This is a scathing editorial by former marine General John Allen.   He was a high ranking NATO official. 

The full oped here:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/03/trump-military-george-floyd-protests/

The yahoo summary here:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/retired-marine-general-john-allen-trump-military-beginning-of-the-end-america-152143340.html

 

 

Quote

 

A Moment of National Shame and Peril—and Hope

We may be witnessing the beginning of the end of American democracy, but there is still a way to stop the descent.

Retired Marine Gen. John Allen on Wednesday said President Trump’s threats to use the U.S. military on protesters “may well signal the beginning of the end of the American experiment.”

“The slide of the United States into illiberalism may well have begun on June 1, 2020,” Allen wrote in a scathing essay published online by Foreign Policy magazine. “Remember the date.”

Allen, the former commander of the NATO International Security Assistance Force and U.S. forces in Afghanistan, said Trump’s halting Rose Garden speech in which he declared himself the “president of law and order,” the use of tear gas on protesters outside the White House and the church photo op that followed Monday was a “stunning” moment and potentially a pivotal one.

“Donald Trump expressed only the barest of condolences at the murder of George Floyd, but he also said nothing about the fundamental and underlying reasons for the unrest: systemic racism and inequality, a historic absence of respect, and a denial of justice,” Allen wrote. “Yes, he mentioned George Floyd, but he did not touch on long-standing societal problems at all. He sees the crisis as a black problem — not as something to be addressed by creating the basis and impetus for a move toward social justice, but as an opportunity to use force to portray himself as a ‘law and order’ president.

“... Trump was clear he views those engaged in the unrest and criminal acts in these riots as terrorists, an enemy,” Allen continued. “He said so, ostensibly as justification to deploy the U.S. military to apply federal force — his ‘personal’ force — against the riots.

“... Donald Trump isn’t religious, has no need of religion, and doesn’t care about the devout, except insofar as they serve his political needs,” he added. “He failed to project any of the higher emotions or leadership desperately needed in every quarter of this nation during this dire moment.”

Allen — who retired from the military in 2013 and is now president of the Brookings Institution — was particularly struck by the juxtaposition of Trump’s claim to be “an ally of peaceful protesters” and the removal of those peaceful protesters to clear the street in front of St. John’s Church.

“Fully equipped riot police and troops violently, and without provocation, set upon the peaceful demonstrators there, manhandling and beating many of them, employing flash-bangs, riot-control agents, and pepper spray throughout,” he wrote. “These demonstrators had done nothing to warrant such an attack. Media who were watching over the scene craned their cameras to try to understand what had happened to justify this violence, until it became clear for all to see. The riot police had waded into these nonviolent American citizens — who were protesting massive social injustice — with the sole purpose of clearing the area around St. John’s Episcopal Church, on the other side of the park, so the self-proclaimed 'ally of peaceful protesters,' Donald Trump, could pose there for a photo-op.”

 

Quote

 

Allen warned that Trump’s ongoing threats to send U.S. military troops into states whose governors do not sufficiently “dominate” the protests should be chilling to all Americans.

“There is no precedent in modern U.S. history for a president to wield federal troops in a state or municipality over the objections of the respective governor,” Allen wrote. “Right now, the last thing the country needs — and, frankly, the U.S. military needs — is the appearance of U.S. soldiers carrying out the president’s intent by descending on American citizens. This could wreck the high regard Americans have for their military, and much more.”

In fact, there is such a precedent, as Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., pointed out in a controversial op-ed in the New York Times on Wednesday: the dispatch of federal troops to southern states, including Arkansas, to enforce desegregation orders. “Gov. Orval Faubus, a racist Democrat, mobilized our National Guard in 1957 to obstruct desegregation at Little Rock Central High School. President Eisenhower federalized the Guard and called in the 101st Airborne in response. The failure to do so, he said, ‘would be tantamount to acquiescence in anarchy,’” Cotton wrote.

The difference, of course, is that Faubus and other Southern governors were refusing to enforce the law and the Constitution, as ordered by the federal courts. In the present situation, state authorities are seeking to enforce the peace, and reserving for themselves the right, as the law and Constitution provide, to decide if they need help from the U.S. military.

Allen concluded his essay with a warning, and call to action.

“At nearly the same moment that Americans were being beaten near the White House on behalf of their president, George Floyd’s brother Terrence Floyd visited the site of George’s murder,” Allen wrote. “Overcome with grief and anger, he loudly upbraided the crowd for tarnishing his brother’s memory with violence and looting. And then he told Americans what to do: vote. ‘Educate yourselves,’ he said, ‘there’s a lot of us.’ So, while June 1 could easily be confused with a day of shame and peril if we listen to Donald Trump, if instead we listen to Terrence Floyd, it is a day of hope.”

 

 

[knapplc]

4 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

 

 

 

 

WTF. That's a bunch of cops who need to be prosecuted.

[Moiraine]

This has to f#&%ing stop. They're only being suspended now because it's in the news. THIS SHOULD BE THE NORM.

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article243234261.html

 

Quote

The Fort Lauderdale patrol officer who inflamed a tense demonstration on Sunday, knocking over a seated protester just before a peaceful protest against police abuse turned violent, has been reviewed by internal affairs for using force 79 times in his roughly three-and-half years on the force, according to department records.

 

[TGHusker]

You know it is pretty bad when Iran has to defend Americans from its own president.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/iran-president-slams-trumps-shameful-bible-photo-op-155856201.html

Quote

 

Tehran (AFP) - Iranian President Hassan Rouhani on Thursday accused Donald Trump of committing a "shameful act" by posing with a Bible outside a Washington church after police cleared peaceful protesters from the area.

Tens of thousands of demonstrators have rallied in cities across the United States since the May 25 death of George Floyd, a 46-year-old African-American man killed by police in Minneapolis.

On Monday law enforcement including military police used tear gas to disperse protesters, clearing a path for Trump to walk from the White House to the St John's church for photographs as he held a Bible.

"It's a shameful act coming from a president who, wanting to act against his own people, seized the heavenly book, the Gospel, and brandished it," Rouhani said in a televised address.

"The Bible is a book that invites all people to peace, serenity and humanity. The Gospel is not a book that orders the murder of innocent people," he added.

Muslims see Christians and Jews as "people of the book" and revere many of the same prophets.

"We are... witnesses to one of the worst days in America's political and social history and the great injustice done to black people," Rouhani said.

"What happened to George Floyd has become a world event."

Tensions between long-time foes Tehran and Washington soared in 2018 after Trump unilaterally withdrew the US from a landmark nuclear agreement and reimposed crippling sanctions.

The two countries have come to the brink of a conflict twice over the past year and frequently exchange diplomatic barbs.

 

 

[TGHusker]

Just now, Moiraine said:

This has to f#&%ing stop. They're only being suspended now because it's in the news. THIS SHOULD BE THE NORM.

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article243234261.html

 

 

Looks like he is nothing but an alt-right thug.  The kind the president likes.   

[BIGREDIOWAN]

14 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

This has to f#&%ing stop. They're only being suspended now because it's in the news. THIS SHOULD BE THE NORM.

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article243234261.html

 

 

Wait timeout for a second, this guy obviously did what he did so he deserves to get suspended, but almost all use of forces are reviewed by I.A. anymore. A use of force can be pointing a gun at a robbery suspect, but NOT using physical force against them. So this is a bit of the media spin on things without completely reporting the situation accurately. Not making excuses or justifying what he did, just simply clarifying that for the future for everyone when you see these numbers pop up. Felony stop, use of force, pointing TASER at some one, use of force, in some agencies handcuffing, use of force, etc. 

[Moiraine]

2 minutes ago, BIGREDIOWAN said:

Wait timeout for a second, this guy obviously did what he did so he deserves to get suspended, but almost all use of forces are reviewed by I.A. anymore. A use of force can be pointing a gun at a robbery suspect, but NOT using physical force against them. So this is a bit of the media spin on things without completely reporting the situation accurately. Not making excuses or justifying what he did, just simply clarifying that for the future for everyone when you see these numbers pop up. Felony stop, use of force, pointing TASER at some one, use of force, in some agencies handcuffing, use of force, etc. 

 

Thanks BRI. I actually went to edit this a bit but then it was quoted. A little of what you're saying here had dawned on me. I was also wondering what the normal volume is because I don't know if 79 is above average for 3.5 years.

[knapplc]

I went back a couple of pages and didn't see this, so if I missed it, apologies.

 

This was cool. Just saw this. From last night.

 

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

3 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

Thanks BRI. I actually went to edit this a bit but then it was quoted. A little of what you're saying here had dawned on me. I was also wondering what the normal volume is because I don't know if 79 is above average for 3.5 years.

It seems high, but it's Ft. Lauderdale and that area obviously deals with more crime than we do in the Des Moines Metro. If he was compared to his peers that would be interesting to see over the same time period. But his "activity level" while he's working might be higher too meaning he wants to work hard while he's there which would cause him to come across more people. 

[FrantzHardySwag]

Anyone read about this cop, Thomas Lane? Arrested in the George Floyd murder. Involved with the community, a rookie cop, no complaints against him thus far - asked Chauvin (20 years more on the force) three times to reposition the victim. I'm feeling like he shouldn't be lumped in with the other 3....

[knapplc]

8 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

Anyone read about this cop, Thomas Lane? Arrested in the George Floyd murder. Involved with the community, a rookie cop, no complaints against him thus far - asked Chauvin (20 years more on the force) three times to reposition the victim. I'm feeling like he shouldn't be lumped in with the other 3....

 

Makes you wonder if he hasn't been charged specifically so he'll be sure to give testimony against the others.

[Moiraine]

9 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

Anyone read about this cop, Thomas Lane? Arrested in the George Floyd murder. Involved with the community, a rookie cop, no complaints against him thus far - asked Chauvin (20 years more on the force) three times to reposition the victim. I'm feeling like he shouldn't be lumped in with the other 3....

 

Maybe, but at some point in the 8 minutes your fellow police officer to stop him from killing someone.

[Moiraine]

17 minutes ago, knapplc said:

I went back a couple of pages and didn't see this, so if I missed it, apologies.

 

This was cool. Just saw this. From last night.

 

 

 

 

I posted it in the topic you created