Police Reform

[RedDenver]

2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Can be.  Many times it’s not though

Sure, and as I already posted, we can deal with those situations differently. These laws aren't about that though and give protections for driving over peaceful protesters, which is what I'm pointing out.

[DevoHusker]

3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

No. You're conflating a lot of things here. The people being mowed down by right-wingers in their cars aren't looting or burning down buildings. 

 

These laws have nothing to do with what you're now trying to talk about. Let's focus. 

 

I am not conflating anything. The same group of folks that think it is okay to burn and vandalize are the same folks that think it is okay to terrorize drivers and damage vehicles on a public roadway. 

[knapplc]

 

1 minute ago, DevoHusker said:

 

I am not conflating anything. The same group of folks that think it is okay to burn and vandalize are the same folks that think it is okay to terrorize drivers and damage vehicles on a public roadway. 

 

Of all the terrible arguments to make. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/12/arrest-new-york-black-lives-matter-protesters-injured

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/14/1006147824/1-woman-is-dead-others-injured-in-minneapolis-after-a-driver-plows-into-protesto

 

 

[Archy1221]

20 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Sure, and as I already posted, we can deal with those situations differently. These laws aren't about that though and give protections for driving over peaceful protesters, which is what I'm pointing out.

You are being misguided in your interpretation of the laws in my opinion 

[DevoHusker]

13 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

 

Of all the terrible arguments to make. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/12/arrest-new-york-black-lives-matter-protesters-injured

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/14/1006147824/1-woman-is-dead-others-injured-in-minneapolis-after-a-driver-plows-into-protesto

 

 

 

Your proclamation on my stance, and these two cases have zero to do with my post. 

 

Thanks for the links, both horrible...Looks like in both instances the drivers were arrested.

[knapplc]

5 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

Your proclamation on my stance, and these two cases have zero to do with my post. 

 

Thanks for the links, both horrible...Looks like in both instances the drivers were arrested.

 

You're conflating rioters with peaceful protestors. Erroneously, I'm sure. But the conflating of those two disparate groups does nothing for your argument. 

 

Right-wingers have been fantasizing about mowing down protesters for years. We have documented proof. Since the George Floyd protests started last year, they've acted on those fantasies. They haven't mowed down rioters, looters, or arsonists. Peaceful protesters. 

 

But you already knew that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[DevoHusker]

5 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

You're conflating rioters with peaceful protestors. Erroneously, I'm sure. But the conflating of those two disparate groups does nothing for your argument. 

 

Right-wingers have been fantasizing about mowing down protesters for years. We have documented proof. Since the George Floyd protests started last year, they've acted on those fantasies. They haven't mowed down rioters, looters, or arsonists. Peaceful protesters. 

 

But you already knew that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Nope, not at all. I said the same people that attack innocent motorists are the same as the rioters that loot businesses and firebomb Federal buildings.

 

You are the one conflating peaceful protests with jumping up and down on the hood of a car and trying to pull the driver through the wing window (there's a dated reference for you) simply because a driver tried to drive, on a public street mind you, to an appointment, or get to work, or get their kids from daycare et al. 

 

But you think that it is okay, because... well...social justice

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, DevoHusker said:

 

Nope, not at all. I said the same people that attack innocent motorists are the same as the rioters that loot businesses and firebomb Federal buildings.

 

But they're not. I provided two articles for your information. I can provide more if you need them. Did you read the articles I linked?

 

Surely you can provide links to articles of Right-wingers mowing down arsonists and looters. This must be a common thing for you to persist in this vein.

 

2 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

You are the one conflating peaceful protests with jumping up and down on the hood of a car and trying to pull the driver through the wing window (there's a dated reference for you) simply because a driver tried to drive, on a public street mind you, to an appointment, or get to work, or get their kids from daycare et al. 

 

 

No, because we specifically were not talking about those folks. You moved the goalposts when your argument started falling apart and here we are. 

[RedDenver]

2 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

Nope, not at all. I said the same people that attack innocent motorists are the same as the rioters that loot businesses and firebomb Federal buildings.

 

You are the one conflating peaceful protests with jumping up and down on the hood of a car and trying to pull the driver through the wing window (there's a dated reference for you) simply because a driver tried to drive, on a public street mind you, to an appointment, or get to work, or get their kids from daycare et al. 

 

But you think that it is okay, because... well...social justice

No one was said that's ok. And yes, you're the one conflating peaceful and non-peaceful protesters. Trying looking at the effects of this law on peaceful protesters.

[DevoHusker]

11 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

But they're not. I provided two articles for your information. I can provide more if you need them. Did you read the articles I linked?

 

Surely you can provide links to articles of Right-wingers mowing down arsonists and looters. This must be a common thing for you to persist in this vein.

 

 

No, because we specifically were not talking about those folks. You moved the goalposts when your argument started falling apart and here we are. 

Where did I claim that Right Wingers mowed anyone down?? You are the one that keeps up with that schtick. 

 

I moved no goalposts, and have kept the same stance since last June.

 

I have seen numerous videos, as have you, of hundreds of people blocking the freeway/road/thoroughfare. They are peacefully protesting social injustice. But, when a motorist tries to get by them, as they should be able to do, the crowd surrounds them, hits/kicks/jumps on the car and screams at the driver. They are no longer peaceful protestors. 

 

Folks that block public streets in an effort to disrupt the traffic flow and daily lives of ordinary folks are looking for a confrontation. They are no longer fighting the good fight. 

[knapplc]

5 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

I moved no goalposts

 

You keep doing it. You're doing it in this post!

 

6 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

I have seen numerous videos, as have you, of hundreds of people blocking the freeway/road/thoroughfare. They are peacefully protesting social injustice. But, when a motorist tries to get by them, as they should be able to do, the crowd surrounds them, hits/kicks/jumps on the car and screams at the driver. They are no longer peaceful protestors. 

 

 

Here's the current stance. We've now moved away from "rioters and looters" to this scenario - and I haven't seen "numerous" videos like this, only a few. 

 

Problem is, none of the people in the articles I linked were doing what you describe. The woman murdered by the right-winger in Charlottesville was peacefully protesting. But these laws make it easier for people like him to escape punishment - or will open the door to lesser punishment. That's the reason these laws are being put on the books. 

 

6 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

Folks that block public streets in an effort to disrupt the traffic flow and daily lives of ordinary folks are looking for a confrontation. They are no longer fighting the good fight. 

 

They're protesters, just not in the way that makes you comfortable. But you don't get to choose how they protest - that's the nature of protest. 

 

Further, we shouldn't make laws making it easier to mow down such people. Turn around. Find another route. In a city that's SUPER easy. Way easier than passing these laws. 

 

What we SHOULD be doing is making laws that make it easier to protest. Literally written into the Bill of Rights. First Amendment. Basic stuff. 

[DevoHusker]

35 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

No one was said that's ok. And yes, you're the one conflating peaceful and non-peaceful protesters. Trying looking at the effects of this law on peaceful protesters.

 

What's with this insistance that I moving the goalposts...? You two need to work up a new act.

 

I have said, from the very first post, that peaceful protesters are not the issue. Peaceful protesters are also not the ones that clog up major roads and then surround and terrorize the car and driver. 

 

The intentional acts, like Charlottesville, are abominable but also anomlies.

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

I have said, from the very first post, that peaceful protesters are not the issue. Peaceful protesters are also not the ones that clog up major roads and then surround and terrorize the car and driver. 

 

 

I think it would be beneficial to go back and read the last couple pages of your posts and see how it could be construed that you're saying the peaceful protesters are looters and rioters. 

[DevoHusker]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

I think it would be beneficial to go back and read the last couple pages of your posts and see how it could be construed that you're saying the peaceful protesters are looters and rioters. 

 

I am at a loss...why don't you help me out.

[RedDenver]

9 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

What's with this insistance that I moving the goalposts...? You two need to work up a new act.

 

I have said, from the very first post, that peaceful protesters are not the issue. Peaceful protesters are also not the ones that clog up major roads and then surround and terrorize the car and driver. 

 

The intentional acts, like Charlottesville, are abominable but also anomlies.

How does the new law effect peaceful protesters?