Censorship

[Archy1221]

This goes more along the lines of political censorship and unfortunately I am afraid we will see more and more of this. 
 

 

[Ulty]

10 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

This goes more along the lines of political censorship and unfortunately I am afraid we will see more and more of this. 
 

 

 

I read this guy's thread...how is this an example of censorship?

 

He worked for Trump, later got a job with a private company, at-will I assume. Dude gets fired, seemingly because of the Trump stink that he had on him. The description of events sounds like a business decision.

[Archy1221]

1 minute ago, Ulty said:

 

I read this guy's thread...how is this an example of censorship?

 

He worked for Trump, later got a job with a private company, at-will I assume. Dude gets fired, seemingly because of the Trump stink that he had on him. The description of events sounds like a business decision.

He got fired for his politics. That’s political censorship. 

[funhusker]

6 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

He got fired for his politics. That’s political censorship. 

He got fired because it appears the client he was hired to assist didn't want to work with him (apparently because of his political beliefs).   "Thems the breaks" when you work in an "at will" job...

 

I don't know many companies that would hire someone to represent the company to a customer, then have that customer say "if that's your rep, we'll find someone else.', and then the company sides with the new employee.  Before I started teaching, I worked in wholesale.  This was pretty common.  There were always stories about people refusing to do business with certain reps.

[Ulty]

2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

He got fired for his politics. That’s political censorship. 

It is a private company making a business decision, which they are totally allowed to do. This guy chose to align himself with Trump...there are consequences for that. I know you did not specifically say that this is a 1st Amendment issue, because the government did not censor him, and you know that, but this is more akin to a free market decision, which conservatives have long championed.

 

However, we will all soon be looking back at the Trump administration and realize that morals and ethics got intertwined with politics in a way that never used to be so fuzzy. If I were a business owner, I would not fire someone for having conservative views, as long as her performance and conduct were good. But so much of Trumpism is not conservatism. Racism, cruelty, and dishonesty are not political issues, they are a question of human values. While I would not fire someone for being conservative politically, I would certainly fire someone for being racist, cruel, or dishonest, and if she was all-in on supporting someone who promoted those qualities, I might look at it similarly. To me, Trumpism highlights the difference between, and a conflation of, ethics and politics.

 

This guy made his bed, now he has to lie in it. Many other Trump employees are going to be looking at a similar future, but they are responsible for their own actions. If this guy was as talented as the tweet says, then he will land on his feet somewhere, despite his Trump-stink and the snowflaky whining of his Twitter thread.

[Archy1221]

6 minutes ago, Ulty said:

It is a private company making a business decision, which they are totally allowed to do. This guy chose to align himself with Trump...there are consequences for that. I know you did not specifically say that this is a 1st Amendment issue, because the government did not censor him, and you know that, but this is more akin to a free market decision, which conservatives have long championed.

 

However, we will all soon be looking back at the Trump administration and realize that morals and ethics got intertwined with politics in a way that never used to be so fuzzy. If I were a business owner, I would not fire someone for having conservative views, as long as her performance and conduct were good. But so much of Trumpism is not conservatism. Racism, cruelty, and dishonesty are not political issues, they are a question of human values. While I would not fire someone for being conservative politically, I would certainly fire someone for being racist, cruel, or dishonest, and if she was all-in on supporting someone who promoted those qualities, I might look at it similarly. To me, Trumpism highlights the difference between, and a conflation of, ethics and politics.

 

This guy made his bed, now he has to lie in it. Many other Trump employees are going to be looking at a similar future, but they are responsible for their own actions. If this guy was as talented as the tweet says, then he will land on his feet somewhere, despite his Trump-stink and the snowflaky whining of his Twitter thread.

This will make a sad state in America if your prophesy comes true.  The employer knew his background went through an interview process and hired him by the way. Pressure from another company who knew nothing about him was what got him fired.  
 

Why do you bring Racism into this discussion.  The Administration was so Racist it increased minority support over any other Repub since the 60’s.  They must not be good at that whole racism thingy.  
 

 

 

Or the administration didn’t have racist policies!!

[Archy1221]

13 minutes ago, funhusker said:

He got fired because it appears the client he was hired to assist didn't want to work with him (apparently because of his political beliefs).   "Thems the breaks" when you work in an "at will" job...

 

I don't know many companies that would hire someone to represent the company to a customer, then have that customer say "if that's your rep, we'll find someone else.', and then the company sides with the new employee.  Before I started teaching, I worked in wholesale.  This was pretty common.  There were always stories about people refusing to do business with certain reps.

You would be fine with this if the reason was that person was gay?  Or black? Or Asian? Or Hispanic?  Or Catholic?  Or Muslim?  I don’t think you would.  Why should political affiliation matter?  

[BigRedBuster]

13 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

The Administration was so Racist it increased minority support over any other Repub since the 60’s.  T

Why do you keep telling this lie?

[Ulty]

15 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

 

Why do you bring Racism into this discussion.  The Administration was so Racist it increased minority support over any other Repub since the 60’s.  They must not be good at that whole racism thingy.  

Trump's racism is very well documented. There are a couple of threads on this very forum you should read if you feel like debating it. But yes, his racism is undeniable. Someone supporting Trump is either racist themselves or are willing to tolerate racism. Period.

[teachercd]

29 minutes ago, funhusker said:

He got fired because it appears the client he was hired to assist didn't want to work with him (apparently because of his political beliefs).   "Thems the breaks" when you work in an "at will" job...

 

I don't know many companies that would hire someone to represent the company to a customer, then have that customer say "if that's your rep, we'll find someone else.', and then the company sides with the new employee.  Before I started teaching, I worked in wholesale.  This was pretty common.  There were always stories about people refusing to do business with certain reps.

It is amazing how they never seem to want a different rep when the rep is a hot female!  Hahaha

 

"What's that now, you are racist, hate Jesus, and have 3 attempted murder charges pendings, well we all make mistakes, sure I would love to buy some of your products"

[Ulty]

13 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

You would be fine with this if the reason was that person was gay?  Or black? Or Asian? Or Hispanic?  Or Catholic?  Or Muslim?  I don’t think you would.  Why should political affiliation matter?  

Those are protected classes under civil rights laws. Political affiliation is not.

[Archy1221]

4 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Why do you keep telling this lie?

Because it isn’t a lie.  If you would like to show me other data I will retract.  Maybe I’m off by a couple years?  

2 minutes ago, Ulty said:

Trump's racism is very well documented. There are a couple of threads on this very forum you should read if you feel like debating it. But yes, his racism is undeniable. Someone supporting Trump is either racist themselves or are willing to tolerate racism. Period.

Incorrect 

[Archy1221]

2 minutes ago, Ulty said:

Those are protected classes under civil rights laws. Political affiliation is not.

And my point is why shouldn’t it be?

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

Because it isn’t a lie.  If you would like to show me other data I will retract.  Maybe I’m off by a couple years?  

I did and you ignored it.

 

Fine...I'll do the google search again.  It's pretty simple to do for yourself.

 

No, Trump didn't win the largest minority vote in 60 years

 

Quote

In 2020, President Trump garnered 12% of the Black vote: an improvement on his 8% showing in 2016. But 12% isn’t the best performance by a GOP nominee since 1960. As you can see in the above chart, several nominees equaled or exceeded Trump’s 2020 showing, including Nixon (15% in 1968 and 13% in 1972), Ford (17% in 1976), Reagan (14% in 1980), and Dole (12% in 1996). 

Quote

Now, let’s turn to Hispanics and Asians. As you can see below, both Ronald Reagan (37% in 1980 and 34% in 1984) and George W. Bush (35% in 2000 and 44% in 2004) bested Trump’s share of the Latino vote in 2016 and 2020 (29% and 31%, respectively).

Quote

Trump’s performance with Asians in 2020, at 32%, is actually the third-worst ever recorded, only ahead of his own showing in 2016 (29%) and Mitt Romney’s in 2012 (26%). Indeed, George H.W. Bush actually won the Asian vote in 1992, 55-31, as did Bob Dole in 1996 (48-44). The Bush-Dole margins might have been higher, had Ross Perot not ran as an independent in 1992 and 1996.

 

Quote

George W. Bush, not Trump, has the best overall GOP minority performance after 1960

Now...please stop spreading the lie.

[Enhance]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

And my point is why shouldn’t it be?

I see what you're saying. It doesn't sit well with me to see someone lose their job because of a political candidate they supported and/or worked for, as a general rule of thumb.

 

Some states do prohibit discrimination based on political affiliation, but most do not and there's no federal law I'm aware of. Why? I think a vast majority of people likely consider political affiliation to be more of a "choice" than something like sexual orientation, age, race or gender. And I think people also take religious views very, very seriously, hence the protection. I don't think a majority of people view political perspectives in the same light as any of those other things.

 

Ultimately, not sure how I feel about it. I have openly questioned the morals and judgement of people who support Trump. But would I have used that against an employee? No, I don't think I would have.