What is the future of the Republican Party?

[Archy1221]

5 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Well the road typically leads to you refusing to discuss anything further, despite being offered reasonable observations and fair questions. 

That would be incorrect.  The road typically leads to you having an opinion, presenting a point of view, providing a source or two….me doing the same and we don’t change each others opinion.   Sounds fine up to the point you begin to inject snarky insults and get upset when someone doesn’t see it your way.  We’ve landed at that point once again.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

11 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

I think the trap that @Archy1221 is falling into is he is applying the position of only about 4 of the absolute most liberal left voices to ALL liberals and ALL democrats. There is a handful out there that do want equal outcomes.

 

I'm pretty darned left on this board, and I don't know a single person who supports equal outcomes for all, or no reward for hard work or merit. 

 

It's a tired strawman, and Archy is just toeing the party line. 

[Archy1221]

31 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I think the trap that @Archy1221 is falling into is he is applying the position of only about 4 of the absolute most liberal left voices to ALL liberals and ALL democrats. There is a handful out there that do want equal outcomes. Problem is, which he will neither recognize nor acknowledge, is that the vast majority do only desire equal opportunity.

 

The hardcore right doesn’t want to admit this because then it becomes more difficult for them to villainize and blame anyone and everyone who is left of them on the spectrum.

I think you are right to an extent that I used some incorrect verbiage.   It’s true that as you said a much smaller percentage of liberals would desire and much much much more equal financial outcome for all (it could never be exactly equal across the board).  So you are on point that I should use better words to explain.   
 

I also think that the Liberal position for a much greater portion of that group is to bring down the standard of the most successful way more than they desire to want the less successful to achieve that first groups success.   We see this in schools as an example.  School districts are trying to take away advanced programs rather than expand them to include those that haven’t been able to achieve an educational level to qualify.    
In the business world, it’s always talked about CEO pay vs the rest of the worker pay.   The largest component of that difference compared to what it was decades ago is equity wealth.   So liberals want to have the C Suite employees give up what they get to make things equal (which is just options to buy shares and won’t help raise salaries of others) but instead what they should advocate for in a public company is creating a law that says a proportionality option should get for all employees that hit a standard set/MBO if any level of employee in said  organization gets stock options. Similar to what happens with offering healthcare plans in companies.  

So it may have been better for me to say Liberals desire more equal outcomes by bringing the top down in cases vs trying to elevate those at the bottom towards the top.  I feel many Liberals want the bottom to get just a little bit better to eke out a living with the governments constant help vs providing resources that get them to an middle class/upper middle class lifestyle that is independent of any constant government support.  
 

And BTW…what you described me of doing, which I just took ownership of doing bad, is constantly done here towards the other side of the spectrum.  Read things posted going forward and see how often the “right” or “republicans” are all lumped together 

[BigRedBuster]

2 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

To Be clear…Assimilation is more than just language as I clearly mentioned and isn’t immediate as I clearly mentioned.  I guess Maybe you are talking to/about Republicans who only refer to immediate language transition when talking about assimilation.

I understand that. But, it's a part of it that is usually brought up....like you did.

 

2 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

And they aren’t expected to speak English right away either like your question suggested

 

Then why is it a problem when they don't speak English?

[Archy1221]

1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

2 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

 

I understand that. But, it's a part of it that is usually brought up....like you did.

Along with a few other things you didn’t mention and didn’t give any one of them a greater importance than another one.  
 

3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Then why is it a problem when they don't speak English?

I didn’t say it was a problem when they didn’t speak English when an immigrant first comes over.  
 

however, Surely you would agree that those who try to pick up the language as quickly as possible, generally assimilate quicker which allows for greater chance at economic prosperity quicker.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

47 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

That would be incorrect.  The road typically leads to you having an opinion, presenting a point of view, providing a source or two….me doing the same and we don’t change each others opinion.   Sounds fine up to the point you begin to inject snarky insults and get upset when someone doesn’t see it your way.  We’ve landed at that point once again.  

 

You can prove me wrong by answering my reasonable questions. 

 

Closest I can see to an insult in this exchange is asking you to get off your high horse, and given your exaggerated and patronizing characterization of non-conservative Americans, it wasn't entirely unearned.

 

In fairness, I have blatantly insulted you on many other threads over the years. 

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Along with a few other things you didn’t mention and didn’t give any one of them a greater importance than another one.  
 

I didn’t say it was a problem when they didn’t speak English when an immigrant first comes over.  
 

however, Surely you would agree that those who try to pick up the language as quickly as possible, generally assimilate quicker which allows for greater chance at economic prosperity quicker.  

I know there are other things.  I'm specifically talking about this one now.

 

How do you know they aren't trying to pick it up?  What percentage of Mexican immigrants don't even try?

 

Anecdotal evidence, but I honestly don't know of any who aren't at least trying to learn some.

[BigRedBuster]

4 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Continues…..The idea that we as a country ARE better than any of our contemporary countries 

To the bolded.  Should Americans just believe and accept that and never question it?  Are we so great that we should never look at other countries and learn from them because maybe they might do something better than us?

 

And, why if we do that, is that some horrible indication on how we view America?

[Archy1221]

3 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

You can prove me wrong by answering my reasonable questions. 

 

Closest I can see to an insult in this exchange is asking you to get off your high horse, and given your exaggerated and patronizing characterization of non-conservative Americans, it wasn't entirely unearned.

 

In fairness, I have blatantly insulted you on many other threads over the years. 

See my response to JJ. 

[BigRedBuster]

4 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Immigrants should  assimilate to our standards, laws, language, economic system, etc….

How are Mexican Immigrants not assimilating to our laws and economic system?

 

[Archy1221]

1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

Should Americans just believe and accept that and never question it? 

No.  At that point complacency sits in.  Which in darn near most life situations is an exceptionalism killer.   You can just get by with that attitude though 

 

5 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Are we so great that we should never look at other countries and learn from them because maybe they might do something better than us?

 

If memory serves, having the Ruskies beating  us in the space race brought about American ingenuity that strived for us to beat them and to be the best.   

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, Archy1221 said:

No.  At that point complacency sits in.  Which in darn near most life situations is an exceptionalism killer.   You can just get by with that attitude though 

 

But, you're saying that American Exceptionalism is the idea that we ARE better than any of our contemporary countries.

So....if we are allowed to look at other countries and learn from them on how maybe they do something better.....how does that reconcile with the idea that we are supposed to believe we are better than all of our contemporary countries?

3 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

If memory serves, having the Ruskies beating  us in the space race brought about American ingenuity that strived for us to beat them and to be the best.   

Not sure what this has to do with the discussion.

[Archy1221]

3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

How are Mexican Immigrants not assimilating to our laws and economic system?

 

Just so I know going forward, will this be a Mexican immigrant discussion only.  not that it matters to me or will really change the outcomes of the discussion but you seem fixated on them in particular.  

[Archy1221]

5 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Not sure what this has to do with the discussion

You literally posted about us looking at countries that were doing things better than us and maybe learning from that.  I’m agreeing with you with an example man.  Geesh.  Take a win when you get one.  

[BigRedBuster]

9 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Just so I know going forward, will this be a Mexican immigrant discussion only.  not that it matters to me or will really change the outcomes of the discussion but you seem fixated on them in particular.  

Mexican Immigration is a very hot topic with Republicans right now.  This discussion is about how immigrants aren't assimilating to America or how somehow they are tearing down American Exceptionalism.

So....yeah...it's appropriate to use them as an example to discuss.  I don't hear Republicans ranting about how horrible immigrants from Germany, England or Australia are.