What is the future of the Republican Party?

[Archy1221]

12 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Do you think that people, particularly liberals, are against the ideal of American Exceptionalism? Or has some of that Exceptionalism actually faded according to real-world statistics?  Is it possible that liberals and conservatives are both fighting for the American Dream at the same time, coming from slightly different angles of the All Men are Created Equal/Life Liberty & Pursuit of Happiness bedrock of our founding principles, the very thing that makes us Exceptional?

Thanks for question…I would answer yes.  I do believe that liberals are for equality of outcomes which is the antithesis of the idea of exceptionalism (or maybe I should say rewarding exceptionalism).  When equality of outcomes is the goal, it reduces incentive for success, innovation, etc..again, all my opinion.  Can’t speak for the “parasites” 

[BigRedBuster]

4 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Sorry but I don’t believe I need to.  See where I clearly said celebrate and share parts of their culture 

 

continue to celebrate and share parts of their culture but remember why they are leaving their homelands and picking the US as their landing spot.

So, if everything fell apart in the US and Mexico had great opportunity and you had to move your family to Mexico, would you immediately be able to speak their language?  When you were hanging out with your friends who also immigrated there, would you speak english or Spanish?

I know someone who actually moved to Mexico and, they are slowly learning spanish.  But, they live in a community in Puerto Vallarta with many other expat Americans.  They walk around speaking english all the time.

 

Meanwhile, I can't honestly think of one Mexican family that I live around that their kids aren't learning english, living just as much within our laws as Americans that lived here for generations.  In fact, there used to be a stat that showed immigrants actually break the US laws less than people who have lived here for generations. 

[knapplc]

7 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Meanwhile, I can't honestly think of one Mexican family that I live around that their kids aren't learning english, living just as much within our laws as Americans that lived here for generations.  In fact, there used to be a stat that showed immigrants actually break the US laws less than people who have lived here for generations. 

 

This is pretty typical. First-generation immigrants typically speak their native languages and either speak English sparingly or not well at all. Their children are fluent in English if they grew up in our education system and they're typically at least bilingual. Subsequent generations may or may not even speak the language of their nationality at all. 

 

My neighbor has lived here for 35 years and his English is difficult to understand. His kids speak English as well as anyone born here. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

15 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Thanks for question…I would answer yes.  I do believe that liberals are for equality of outcomes which is the antithesis of the idea of exceptionalism (or maybe I should say rewarding exceptionalism).  When equality of outcomes is the goal, it reduces incentive for success, innovation, etc..again, all my opinion.  Can’t speak for the “parasites” 

 

What if I told you liberals aren't for this? That "opportunity" is the goal, not "equal outcomes for everyone" as evidenced by.....well pretty much all available evidence.

 

The angry Marxist you keep conjuring up is preventing an intelligent conversation. 

[Archy1221]

23 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

33 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

 

So, if everything fell apart in the US and Mexico had great opportunity and you had to move your family to Mexico, would you immediately be able to speak their language? 

So, no.  Good thing my wife could though!!  She would be able to help me learn the language faster which would allow me to assimilate to my new homeland quicker.  

[Archy1221]

10 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

What if I told you liberals aren't for this? That "opportunity" is the goal, not "equal outcomes for everyone" as evidenced by.....well pretty much all available evidence.

I would say there isn’t much evidence to support this.  

[Archy1221]

10 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

The angry Marxist you keep conjuring up is preventing an intelligent conversation. 

This strawman you bring up is preventing a legitimate conversation from moving forward. 

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

So, no.  Good thing my wife could though!!  She would be able to help me learn the language faster which would allow me to assimilate to my new homeland quicker.  

But, Mexican immigrants coming here usually don't have a spouse that can teach them English.  However, the ones that I know at least try to learn some to communicate some.  Their kids are amazing though.  

 

My great grandparents that immigrated from Germany were the same way.  My grandparents were bilingual.  I REALLY wish that would have carried on and I now knew German.  But, my mother never learned German.

 

So....when I here Republicans claim Immigrants aren't assimilating because they aren't learning and speaking English.....it's pretty much way off base.

[Archy1221]

17 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

23 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

 

But, Mexican immigrants coming here usually don't have a spouse that can teach them English

And they aren’t expected to speak English right away either like your question suggested

[Archy1221]

19 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

So....when I hear Republicans claim Immigrants aren't assimilating because they aren't learning and speaking English.....it's pretty much way off base.

 To Be clear…Assimilation is more than just language as I clearly mentioned and isn’t immediate as I clearly mentioned.  I guess Maybe you are talking to/about Republicans who only refer to immediate language transition when talking about assimilation.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

12 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I would say there isn’t much evidence to support this.  

 

Really? 

 

You don't see the difference between, say, improving the opportunity to go to college, and demanding a set salary for all graduates, that latter which no liberal advocates? I mean, there's not even a movement to guarantee graduation for all who attend. Same for housing, small business loans, basic civil rights, etc. Opportunity is what makes America exceptional. I honestly don't see anyone arguing for equal and guaranteed outcomes in life, so you're in a great place to either school me or recant.  

 

Everyone is free to fail. Some who blame the system for their failure are making a lazy excuse. Some are right, and they have evidence to back it up. If you get off your high horse and squint a little, rewarding hard work doesn't fall down the ideological lines you think it does. Some of the biggest blame-the-system-excuse makers want the government to step in and Make America Great Again. And some of our hardest working and least-rewarded Americans would like a word with you. 

[Archy1221]

16 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

If you get off your high horse and squint a little,

I don’t own a horse and do squint when the sun shines bright or my myopia kicks on.  There no need to discuss anything further when this is usually the road it leads to for you during the conversation.  Lemme know when things change for you and we can talk.  

[Lorewarn]

40 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

 To Be clear…Assimilation is more than just language as I clearly mentioned and isn’t immediate as I clearly mentioned.  I guess Maybe you are talking to/about Republicans who only refer to immediate language transition when talking about assimilation.  

 

 

How would you describe american cultural assimilation outside of language?

[JJ Husker]

47 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Really? 

 

You don't see the difference between, say, improving the opportunity to go to college, and demanding a set salary for all graduates, that latter which no liberal advocates? I mean, there's not even a movement to guarantee graduation for all who attend. Same for housing, small business loans, basic civil rights, etc. Opportunity is what makes America exceptional. I honestly don't see anyone arguing for equal and guaranteed outcomes in life, so you're in a great place to either school me or recant.  

 

Everyone is free to fail. Some who blame the system for their failure are making a lazy excuse. Some are right, and they have evidence to back it up. If you get off your high horse and squint a little, rewarding hard work doesn't fall down the ideological lines you think it does. Some of the biggest blame-the-system-excuse makers want the government to step in and Make America Great Again. And some of our hardest working and least-rewarded Americans would like a word with you. 

I think the trap that @Archy1221 is falling into is he is applying the position of only about 4 of the absolute most liberal left voices to ALL liberals and ALL democrats. There is a handful out there that do want equal outcomes. Problem is, which he will neither recognize nor acknowledge, is that the vast majority do only desire equal opportunity.

 

The hardcore right doesn’t want to admit this because then it becomes more difficult for them to villainize and blame anyone and everyone who is left of them on the spectrum.

[Guy Chamberlin]

41 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I don’t own a horse and do squint when the sun shines bright or my myopia kicks on.  There no need to discuss anything further when this is usually the road it leads to for you during the conversation.  Lemme know when things change for you and we can talk.  

 

Well the road typically leads to you refusing to discuss anything further, despite being offered reasonable observations and fair questions. 

 

When you want to have a conversation where the liberal in question isn't a non-existent Marxist, let me know.