Roe v Wade overturned????? Draft says so

[Archy1221]

54 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

Even more shocked that you'd place your expertise in this matter above her's. 

Her “expertise” on what is legal and illegal has no basis in the reality of the language of the bills currently passed on waiting on a Roe decision.  

[DevoHusker]

 

 

 

[knapplc]

 

[teachercd]

Doesn't this leak, with an opinion that I think most people don't agree with, help the D's out a lot?

[Scarlet]

1 minute ago, teachercd said:

Doesn't this leak, with an opinion that I think most people don't agree with, help the D's out a lot?

Wait until they rule against contraception protections.

[teachercd]

Just now, Scarlet said:

Wait until they rule against contraception protections.

That is why I bought my XL Magnums in bulk.

 

But, I just can't see how this leak does much to help the R's.  

 

I would imagine most women are fine with abortion and I don't know if I personally know one dude that is flat out against it.

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, teachercd said:

But, I just can't see how this leak does much to help the R's.  

 

 

The Supremes vote a simple up/down on each case. Once they tally those votes, someone is assigned to write the majority opinion. There is a discussion, there's a written dissent, and then the official actual vote takes place, and is announced to the public. 

 

The process from initial vote to when it becomes public is months long. During that time word gets out, and pressure is often applied to one or more of the judges. 

 

By leaking this document, the majority could be attempting to keep one of the judges in line who may be wavering in their commitment to the majority. 

[knapplc]

10 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

Wait until they rule against contraception protections.

 

Yep. The confirmed text throws a whole host of things into question. And the authoritarians who want to take over this country are going to keep pushing their agenda through this friendly court.

[teachercd]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

The Supremes vote a simple up/down on each case. Once they tally those votes, someone is assigned to write the majority opinion. There is a discussion, there's a written dissent, and then the official actual vote takes place, and is announced to the public. 

 

The process from initial vote to when it becomes public is months long. During that time word gets out, and pressure is often applied to one or more of the judges. 

 

By leaking this document, the majority could be attempting to keep one of the judges in line who may be wavering in their commitment to the majority. 

I totally think it is this.

[Archy1221]

41 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Wait, does that mean Jess agrees that walls and fencing  work to control access? 

[knapplc]

Here is something I didn't know.

 

 

EDIT - While Alene's statement is true, apparently what she quoted IS NOT true. Apparently Senator Cramer, while opposed to abortion, has not made the statement attributed to him in this tweet. 

 

Leaving the tweet up because Alene's POV is valid, and it leads well into the explainer by the Rabbi below.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's this thread unwrapped:

 

For Jews who can become pregnant, access to abortion services is a religious *requirement*, and has been for thousands of years. Surprised? Let's dig into some of the texts 1/ 

Let's start with the Torah. In Exodus 21:22 we get a clear statement that a fetus is *not* a person: "When men fight, and one of them pushes a pregnant person and a miscarriage results, but no other damage ensues, the one responsible shall be fined..." 2/ 

This stands in sharp contrast with the next verse, which states that "a life for a life, an eye for an eye..."

The Torah literally couldn't be more explicit: a fetus is not a human life. 3/ 

In fact, in the Talmud (circa 600ce), we are told clearly that a fetus is not an independent life by none other than that the great Rabbi Yehudah HaNasi, who said that "a fetus is considered a part of the pregnant person's body, equivalent to their thigh." 4/ 

The Mishnah (200ce)--in a section dealing with the death penalty--even says that if a pregnant person is set to be executed, you don't delay the execution unless they are literally in labor. Otherwise? The fetus is considered just another part of their body. (Arikhin 1:4) 5/ 

Mishnah Oholot 7:6- "A person who is having trouble giving birth, they abort the fetus and take it out limb by limb, because existing life comes before potential life. If most of the child has come out already they do not touch it, for we do not push off one life for another" 6/ 

Perhaps no idea is more central in classical Jewish legal texts thinking about abortion than that of the "rodef" / "the persuer", which Rambam--living a millennia ago--codified into law. (M.T. Shmirat Nefesh 1:9) 7/ 

'Rodef' is a legal category in Judaism for someone/something on the way to kill a human being. Jewish law obligates us to stop a Rodef at any cost--up to and including taking their life. Thus, a pregnancy that endangers life is considered a Rodef and *must* be terminated. 8/ 

This is what rabbis mean when we say that "access to abortion is a religious requirement for Jews." Because there are situations where Judaism doesn't just allow abortion, but in fact traditionally *requires* abortion (when the life of the pregnant person is threatened) 9/ 

"But only when the pregnant person's life is in physical danger??!?" Nope! Not just literally their life, but also their well-being, their mental health, and all sorts of other explanations that encompass the vast majority of the reasons that folks pursue abortions. 10/ 

All of which is to say: laws that limit or criminalize abortion aren't just violations of the human rights of every person who can become pregnant, but are also infringements on the religious liberty of every American Jew, and an imposition of governmental Christianity on us all. 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by knapplc
The first quoted tweet was unfactual.

[teachercd]

Yarmulke sales are about to explode in the US!

[Scarlet]

Hmmm... hyperbole huh?  How long until we're treading in the full abortion ban ā la El Salvador?

[Guy Chamberlin]

Boy, Louisiana didn't take long to go all-in and then some.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/05/louisiana-republicans-advance-bill-that-would-charge-abortion-homicide/

[Scarlet]

7 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Boy, Louisiana didn't take long to go all-in and then some.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/05/louisiana-republicans-advance-bill-that-would-charge-abortion-homicide/

Next step...an activist prosecutor charging someone with homicide for a miscarriage.  

 

Also, is any provider going touch doing an abortion even if they determine the mother's life was at risk when that could be up to a court to decide?  Would it be worth it to a physician to risk doing hard time?