Las Vegas mass shooting

[Bigred_inSD]

I have a dear friend who is a coworker and is originally from Vegas, she knows one person who was shot in the arm and another shot in the chest. She knows people who were there with other friends who were shot as well.  She's terrified to look at the list of victims because she will know names.  She called me and she broke down on the phone today.  The poor girl is numb and broken.  She has the kindest soul of anyone I've ever met.  This has shaken her to her core

[Enhance]

43 minutes ago, man eating mastodon said:

And how do we get every auto -pump -revolver and lever action gun off the streets? It's beyond possible at this point.

Australia instituted a gun buyback program in 1996 that got 650,000 guns off the streets, but some say it has really only accomplished fueling an underground gun trade. That particular article summarizes that homicide rates in the U.S. have dropped since 1992 while the amount of guns has increased (which is true) and that, ultimately, it wouldn't work in America.

 

Australia was also already a relatively peaceful country (in comparison to the U.S.) prior the gun buy back and resulting stricter gun regulations.

 

But, it also takes some creative freedoms with the data. I've also seen data (like @knapplc's link) that seems to leave no question the program has been successful.

 

People who desperately want a gun will find a way to get a gun - no doubt. And we also have to do a better job culturally and educationally in regards to firearms. But, I think restriction is part of a balanced diet, so to speak.

[Danny Bateman]

47 minutes ago, zoogs said:

Guy for whom gun culture is precious doing mental gymnastics to spin this his way:

Extremely obvious retort:

IMO it's entirely about the 2nd amendment. We can't invent convoluted ways to circumvent the modern day interpretation of one of the Bill of Rights to achieve our ends. We can, and should, either revise that interpretation or update the Constitution accordingly.

 

Ahh, but doing either of those isn't going to happen with the people currently representing us. To them it's settled law, courtesy of DC vs. Heller, and you'd be a silly fool to think otherwise.

 

This was my key takeaway from the Politico article above. Progressives (or just those opposed to uncheck gun rights proliferation at the expense of commonsense gun control) are starting to realize, on both Heller & Citizens United that they've been outgunned and outmanned in the long game on issues like gun control & campaign finance. The conservatives organized, mobilized and shifted public sentiment over a very long period of time. Now, there's some pushback from the public and general sentiment is shifting AWAY from conservative positions on these issues. But they've got to do the organizing and mobilizing bit to fight this in the courts as well as the court of public opinion.

 

My belief is that process is going to take a heck of a long time to make a substantial impact, so they'd better get started.

 

This fits in neatly with the long game others are discussing with regards to assault rifles.

[Moiraine]

My friend is in Vegas with her parents. This is her parents' 2nd day in America. Good introduction.

[zoogs]

We can't do this because we're America and we fundamentally love what we are.

 

[BigRedBuster]

A good reporter would have asked..."When is a good time to talk about it so we can come back to the subject?"

 

 

[zoogs]

This White House is reprehensible on every conceivable level.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Having an armed audience shooting back blindly at this gunman's location would've probably resulted in injuries or deaths inside the hotel and around the hotel and probably would've added to the count of dead and wounded. Your common gun owner probably doesn't understand ballistics and how useless their handgun actually is at long range distances unless they've practiced shooting with it past 50 yards. They wouldn't understand trajectory and probably have never looked into it. The 32nd floor of a hotel room is way up there, as a story is a little over 10 feet. You're talking a minimum of 320 feet which is over 100 yards shooting with a handgun, and that's shooting up from the base of the hotel. Your standard 9mm round which most people probably carry, drops 7.5 inches at 100 yards. I'm not saying it's impossible to shoot this guy from where he was at, but it would be very difficult considering it was probably difficult to figure out where he was shooting from.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is, but these types of attacks HAVE to stop.............

[Landlord]

Why won't the president say the words "radical white terrorism"???

[Danny Bateman]

16 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

A good reporter would have asked..."When is a good time to talk about it so we can come back to the subject?"

 

 

 

Now that this is real and no longer sarcastic snark, it's even more chilling.

[zoogs]

There are so many of these things it's easy to forget when they happen:

 

 

 

[Moiraine]

10 minutes ago, unlfan said:

Because "radical white" is not an ideology that is promoting, by its very own words, mass homicide.

 

"radical Islam", however, is.

 

 

The word "radical" in this context means death. White or Christian people who kill a bunch of people are radical. Muslims who kill a bunch of people are radical. 

 

Whites are not all radical

Christians are not all radical

Muslims are not all radical

 

 

The hesitation in calling this guy a terrorist when there's never hesitation for an Arab person is a bunch of f'ing bulls#!t. 

 

If the Orlando shooter was a terrorist, this guy is.

[Landlord]

5 minutes ago, unlfan said:

 

 

You are mixing races with idealogies. There is no "white" ideology that people use to justify in their own mind mass homicide.

 

There are hundreds of examples of people perverting Islam in their own mind to justify mass homicide. Such people have killed thousands on American soil this century.

 

Yes, there are also some examples of people perverting Christianity in their own mind to justify mass homicide. Those cases are much more rare in modern times, and have not killed thousands on American soil this century.

 

 

 

Ah okay. I mean, if we just completely ignore the terrorist attacks done explicitly by and in the name of white supremacy, which is absolutely a white ideology, let me amend my initial question.

 

 

Why won't the president say the words "radical conservative nationalist terrorism or extremism"??? 

[Fru]

5 minutes ago, unlfan said:

 

 

You are mixing races with idealogies. There is no "white" ideology that people use to justify in their own mind mass homicide.

 

There are hundreds of examples of people perverting Islam in their own mind to justify mass homicide. Such people have killed thousands on American soil this century, and many more around the World this century.

 

Yes, there are also some examples of people perverting Christianity in their own mind to justify mass homicide. Those cases are much more rare in modern times, and have not killed thousands on American soil this century.

 

[Moiraine]

I haven't heard he was nationalist. Maybe he just hated people.

 

Regardless, it pisses me off that they're not calling him a terrorist.

 

 

Shortly after the Las Vegas shooting that killed at least 58 people and injured more than 500 Sunday night, law enforcement indicated that it was not treating the tragedy as terrorism. “No, not at this point,” Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said. “We believe it was a local individual. He resides here locally. .… We don’t know what his belief system was at this time.”

 

 

Why not just say "No. He was White."