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Carriker Chronicles - Osborne vs. Saban - Who's the Best?

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On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 11:26 AM, hskrpwr13 said:

 

 

I appreciate you want to have a discussion, but I feel like I'm being hooked.

 

The thread is essentially about Osborne V Saban as the "greater" coach. Saban left MSU, in large part, because he couldn't recruit at a high enough level to win at the level he wanted. Yes, the prestige of NU is greater than that of MSU, but MSU was, and still is, in a much better recruiting location. I think Saban has the talent that he could've taken MSU to the heights of an NU, if he had the desire to stay and do it. Instead, he took the easier path (not saying he's wrong for doing that, but I'm not going to discount that he did) of taking a job at a school in a recruiting hot bed (twice)...because it was an easier path to grand success. If TO had taken a similar path, I think he accomplishes the same level of success (maybe better?) for which we currently laud Saban. Yes, Saban officially has the numbers, and yes I'm biased to TO. But I'm willing to hand my team to the guy that believed he could reach the apex of the sport, even when things started going a bit south (thinking late 80s/early 90s), than with a guy that left a more similar situation to NU (MSU) to find an easier job to reach the apex of the sport. You can disagree, and certainly my opinion provides little "proof" that TO is better Saban, but hopefully, my support for my position are more clear.

 

Another thing, when I compare Osborne v Saban, is the conference/national competition each has faced through his career. Osborne, in conference, has had to face some big time coaches like Switzer, Snyder (in his prime), Bill McArtney, and nationally, guys like Bryant, Paterno, Saban, Jimmy Johnson, Hayes, Schembechler, Spurrier at Fla, and I know I'm leaving out other HOFers. Compare those to Saban's SEC tenure. In the SEC, Fulmer (after prime), Les Miles, Richt, Meyer (maybe I'm missing someone). Nationally: Meyer, Sweeney (but hes not yet been around long), maybe Jimbo, Carrol (when at USC) (maybe I'm missing someone), but I would certainly argue that the overall coaching competition Saban has faced most of his SEC career is nothing like the level of coaching TO faced during his tenure. Again, simply my opinion

 

The bolded makes absolutely zero sense.  You do realize when TO took over right?  NU was at the apex of the sport when he took over.  There was no reaching because we were already there.  Michigan State was enduring NCAA sanctions when Saban took the job.  Alabama was enduring NCAA sanctions when Saban took the job.  When one looks at Saban's career path objectively, it's hard to say he's taken the "easy" path. 

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, junior4949 said:

 

The bolded makes absolutely zero sense.  You do realize when TO took over right?  NU was at the apex of the sport when he took over.  There was no reaching because we were already there.  Michigan State was enduring NCAA sanctions when Saban took the job.  Alabama was enduring NCAA sanctions when Saban took the job.  When one looks at Saban's career path objectively, it's hard to say he's taken the "easy" path. 

 

 

 

 

Regarding the bold, you need a new line. You're wearing out that one. And one can make any comment seem senseless when all context is removed.

 

The point one was that TO's numbers would look even better (perhaps even better than Saban's) if he were at a program that had the advantages that he had at NU (advantages that Bama also has), plus the recruiting advantages that Bama has today. I believe that Osborne accomplishes every bit as much as Saban, and possibly more, if put in the same situation as Saban at Bama (or LSU). I've previously provided my reasoning. You're free to disagree. If this makes absolutely zero sense to you, simply assume an Inigo Montoya-type response.

 

 

 

 

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One of Osborne's advantages was playing in the Big 8.

 

I just don't think it compares to the Big 10 and SEC of today. 

 

They are two great coaches. That's for sure. 

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42 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

One of Osborne's advantages was playing in the Big 8.

 

I just don't think it compares to the Big 10 and SEC of today. 

 

They are two great coaches. That's for sure. 

While not always true - there were a few times when 4 big 8 teams were in the top 10.  Too often it was Big 2, Small 6 - but KU, ISU, Co, KSU, Mo all had runs at the Big 2.

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On 1/29/2018 at 2:47 PM, Guy Chamberlin said:

One of Osborne's advantages was playing in the Big 8.

 

I just don't think it compares to the Big 10 and SEC of today. 

 

They are two great coaches. That's for sure. 

 

I definitely think this is part of it.  It's hard to control for all the variables.

 

Arguments against Osborne:

 - Generally weak conference

 - Fewer really good teams overall in CFB (less parity - stockpile talent)

 - Dominant over a shorter time period (fewer seasons at a national championship level)

 

Arguments against Saban:

 - Closer (easier?) recruiting base

 - Fewer undefeated seasons

 - Got "help" from post-season structure - didn't win division, wasn't in Top 2 at end of regular season, etc.

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