Urban Meyer Vs. Tom Osborne Lame Debate

[Huskers93-97]

I heard this morning on my drive in to work someone was trying to make a comparison to Urban Meyer keeping around the wife beater and Tom Osborne keeping around Lawrence phillips. That maybe if the reason meyer kept him around was the same reason tom kept around lawrence and if thats the case maybe he deserves a pass. 

 

1. I dont think meyer has ever shown the moral character of Tom Osborne. 

2. The main difference is Osborne was not trying to cover up what lawrence did. It was all public knowledge and Tom made his decision based on whats best for Phillips knowing he would get media scrutiny. Meyer was trying to hide and cover it up, or ignore it which is just as bad. Essentially Osborne acted with all the information out in the open and Meyer was hiding it. So they should not be compared.

[TGHusker]

Some more Urban Meyer stuff here.  I had heard he was kind of a jerk this confirms it from some of his former UF players.

 

 

https://www.projectveritas.com/2018/08/02/an-unfair-game-urban-meyer-a-history-of-abuse/

 

Quote

 

Former NCAA athletes shed light on embattled coach’s abusive treatment of players in undercover videos

Xavier Nixon, OL: “They had a guy’s quads explode in the weight room… during what we call the Valentine’s Day Massacre.”

William Green, DE: “There was these mat drills, where people would literally get choked out.”

Gideon Ajagbe, LB: “A lot of what played into my depression was they humiliated me… they said I was a pu**y… “

Meyer’s players experienced “arm dangling,” “quads exploding” on Florida Gator team Urban Meyer threw objects at players “it’s a f*cking full bottle of Gatorade, and he’s chucking it at people.”

 

 

[Ulty]

I can see the moral equivalency argument, but the major difference is Urban Meyer being in violation of his contract, and Ohio State already being up to their eyeballs in Title IX issues as it is.

 

It is fair game to question Tom Osborne's decisions, and maybe those decisions and the response would be different today, but it is Meyer's cover up and his contractual obligations that are going to doom him. 

[Dansker]

I've always formed my own opinion that Urban Meyer is a slime ball. Zero integrity. Zero loyalty. The guy faked health issues to leave Florida. There's no comparison to Osborne. Tom was a man of integrity. Loyal to his assistants, loyal to his players. Money wasn't one of the reasons he wanted to be in Lincoln. I see these traits with Scott Frost as well.

[Moiraine]

The only similarity is it involved domestic abuse and I suppose both Phillips and Smith were kept in the program.

 

But Osborne didn’t have a chance to hide what Phillips did. If he tried to silence Christian Peters’ accusers that would be similar.

 

Osborne decided to keep both players on the team, but as far as I'm aware he didn't try to hide their actions. These are 2 entirely different things.

[Dansker]

22 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

The only similarity is it involved domestic abuse and I suppose both Phillips and Smith were kept in the program.

 

But Osborne didn’t have a chance to hide what Phillips did. If he tried to silence Christian Peters’ accusers that would be similar.

 

Osborne decided to keep both players on the team, but as far as I'm aware he didn't try to hide their actions. These are 2 entirely different things.

 

Christian Peter'

 

 

[Moiraine]

1 minute ago, FTW said:

 

Christian Peter'

 

 

 

 

Cell phone posts are not eligible for grammar critique.

[Dansker]

2 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Cell phone posts are not eligible for grammar critique.

 

I'll allow it 

[methodical]

They aren't all that similar.  The thing with all incidents in an organization is if you try to bury them they are far worse and add a conspiracy on top of the crime which makes a scandal.  It takes leadership to actually confront things instead of trying to bury those skeletons in a closet and Meyer failed that, multiple times.

 

That being said, LP wouldn't get a second chance in this day and age nor would any other player guilty of domestic violence or sexual assault and it wouldn't be left up to a coaches discretion, no matter how legendary.  It shouldn't have been in this case either and took massive failures by their Athletic Department as a whole, their Title IX staff, Coaching staff, etc to end up how it did.  If Urban ends up being fired, its not his scumbag WR coach that did him in, it's him, and his decision to protect him because of who his family was.

[NUance]

The thing is, it's not just coaches like Urban Meyer and Tom Osborne who might not be forthcoming.  If you went up and down the ranks of all 130 FBS schools you'd find coaches at every percentile who failed to disclose the criminal actions of their players.  But for some reason it's mostly the coaches of the top 25 or so who take the media heat for various scandals.  Well, except Colorado.  They've had a couple of scandals in the news even though they suck.  

 

 

[Landlord]

3 hours ago, FTW said:

The guy faked health issues to leave Florida.

 

This specifically is completely unsubstantiated hearsay. Might be true, but there's no actual evidence of such a claim - there's plenty that his workaholicism was destroying his body.

 

 

 

Anyways, the LP scenario isn't one that needs much comparing. That was all in the public, and TO didn't lie or cover anything up, nor did he make any objectively 'wrong' decisions at least not without hindsight.

 

The scenario that is more interesting to compare is the cases of Riley Washington and Tyrone Williams. Osborne didn't necessarily try to cover them up, but he interviewed witnesses himself, spoke publicly about whether or not his players were innocent before they stood trial, had an assistant "hide"/lock a gun away and other behaviors that today, if the coach for any other elite program engaged in, we wouldn't give them an ounce of benefit of the doubt.

 

Lancaster County Attorney Gary Lacey - "That's Osborne using his influence to disrupt the criminal justice system," Lacey says. "Osborne talks to witnesses. Whether he tried to influence them or not ... someone with his reputation would have an effect."

 

Now, as far as the LP thing, according to an SI article back then Osborne was allegedly aware that Phillips was abusive for some time before the incident at Frost's apartment. 

 

https://www.si.com/vault/1995/09/25/206647/coach-and-jury-nebraska-players-charged-with-crimes-have-a-steadfast-ally-in-the-man-who-runs-the-program-tom-osborne

[Saunders]

1 hour ago, Landlord said:

 

This specifically is completely unsubstantiated hearsay. Might be true, but there's no actual evidence of such a claim - there's plenty that his workaholicism was destroying his body.

 

 

 

 

I work in the same office as 2 guys that played at UF. One in the 90’s, one in the early 00’s.

 

It’s true. 

 

The guy guy who played in the 90‘s played against Frazier in HS too. Said he was fast af.

[huskerfan333157]

2 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

This specifically is completely unsubstantiated hearsay. Might be true, but there's no actual evidence of such a claim - there's plenty that his workaholicism was destroying his body.

 

 

 

Anyways, the LP scenario isn't one that needs much comparing. That was all in the public, and TO didn't lie or cover anything up, nor did he make any objectively 'wrong' decisions at least not without hindsight.

 

The scenario that is more interesting to compare is the cases of Riley Washington and Tyrone Williams. Osborne didn't necessarily try to cover them up, but he interviewed witnesses himself, spoke publicly about whether or not his players were innocent before they stood trial, had an assistant "hide"/lock a gun away and other behaviors that today, if the coach for any other elite program engaged in, we wouldn't give them an ounce of benefit of the doubt.

 

Lancaster County Attorney Gary Lacey - "That's Osborne using his influence to disrupt the criminal justice system," Lacey says. "Osborne talks to witnesses. Whether he tried to influence them or not ... someone with his reputation would have an effect."

 

Now, as far as the LP thing, according to an SI article back then Osborne was allegedly aware that Phillips was abusive for some time before the incident at Frost's apartment. 

 

https://www.si.com/vault/1995/09/25/206647/coach-and-jury-nebraska-players-charged-with-crimes-have-a-steadfast-ally-in-the-man-who-runs-the-program-tom-osborne

But he's from Nebraska so there's no way he could have ever known that!

[HuskerNBigD]

17 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

This specifically is completely unsubstantiated hearsay. Might be true, but there's no actual evidence of such a claim - there's plenty that his workaholicism was destroying his body.

 

 

 

Anyways, the LP scenario isn't one that needs much comparing. That was all in the public, and TO didn't lie or cover anything up, nor did he make any objectively 'wrong' decisions at least not without hindsight.

 

The scenario that is more interesting to compare is the cases of Riley Washington and Tyrone Williams. Osborne didn't necessarily try to cover them up, but he interviewed witnesses himself, spoke publicly about whether or not his players were innocent before they stood trial, had an assistant "hide"/lock a gun away and other behaviors that today, if the coach for any other elite program engaged in, we wouldn't give them an ounce of benefit of the doubt.

 

Lancaster County Attorney Gary Lacey - "That's Osborne using his influence to disrupt the criminal justice system," Lacey says. "Osborne talks to witnesses. Whether he tried to influence them or not ... someone with his reputation would have an effect."

 

Now, as far as the LP thing, according to an SI article back then Osborne was allegedly aware that Phillips was abusive for some time before the incident at Frost's apartment. 

 

https://www.si.com/vault/1995/09/25/206647/coach-and-jury-nebraska-players-charged-with-crimes-have-a-steadfast-ally-in-the-man-who-runs-the-program-tom-osborne

 

Yup, I would say it was akin to the Washington situation and people tend to gloss over that and, instead, focus solely on LP.

 

TO 100% tried to utilize his influence in the Washington situation.

[huKSer]

Ah, yes - good ol' bullet butt Mohammed