The Israel-Hamas War

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, Fru said:

Ha I’m sure I’ll get the same lecture.

 

You'll each get your own lecture, customized to your previous posting history, delivered in a PM with emojis. 

[teachercd]

57 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

You'll each get your own lecture, customized to your previous posting history, delivered in a PM with emojis. 

It is true!  I can vouch for it!  Hahaha

 

Kidding

[Guy Chamberlin]

3 hours ago, Fru said:

I don’t think many of the Pro Pal protestors even have or want an end goal or solution. They shriek about a “ceasefire” as if a ceasefire with a terrorist organization is even some kind of viable option. In fact, the more I hear from them, the more I’m convinced that they just want something to be mad at Joe Biden about. Their stances seem to be largely based off social media posts with disingenuous rhetoric and a fundamental lack of understanding about the historical events that have led up to the situation today.
 

They don’t really care about Gazans. If they did, they wouldn’t gleefully gloat “Enjoy Trump, because we aren’t voting for Biden.” They don’t really care about the US selling weapons to other countries. I’m yet to hear a peep from them about the 400k people in Yemen that were killed by weapons the US sold to Saudi Arabia. 

 

Folks can pretend that it’s some kind of romanticized tradition of youths cheering for the underdog akin to voting rights or not wanting to be sent off to die in war all they want. It simply isn’t even close to being in the same stratosphere. 

 

 

Sorry man, but there are nothing but common threads in this kind of activism and protest. That it hasn't yet reached the scale of Vietnam and the Civil Right movement doesn't change the motives, the players, and the public reaction. You don't have to like it. Folks back then didn't either. But it's entirely possible they've shaped the conversation. 

 

While you contend they are "shrieking about a ceasefire" they've been joined by politicians of every stripe and nation, who agree it's a more than viable option for stopping the death and starvation of innocents on a massive scale that Hamas clearly anticipated. And possibly avoiding a global escalation. The conversation has changed significantly in six months, and a lot of that wacky left stuff has gone mainstream. 

 

I don't agree with coddled self-satisfied cosplaying college protestors on plenty of things, and I go out of my way to de-romanticize their melodrama. But I do have to bring my A-game because they actually are well-versed on the history of the region. More than most. Forced to do my homework, I realized how much s#!t I'd forgotten. Or had wrong. And yeah, they didn't hesitate to bring up Yemen, either. I implore them to understand that the difference between Biden and Trump remains just massive enough to deserve their vote. It's a tough sell. 

 

Seems to me they actually do care about the Gazans, but your mileage may vary. If you think a cease fire isn't even viable, there's nowhere to go but down. 

[Fru]

13 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Sorry man, but there are nothing but common threads in this kind of activism and protest. That it hasn't yet reached the scale of Vietnam and the Civil Right movement doesn't change the motives, the players, and the public reaction. You don't have to like it. Folks back then didn't either. But it's entirely possible they've shaped the conversation. 

 

 

Sorry man, but there’s not. Simping for a terrorist organization that wants to eradicate all Jews and infidels from Earth isn’t the same as a lunch counter sit in from the 60’s. Shaping the conversation with slanted views and deliberately misleading social media propaganda isn’t terribly helpful. 
 

 

13 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

While you contend they are "shrieking about a ceasefire" they've been joined by politicians of every stripe and nation, who agree it's a more than viable option for stopping the death and starvation of innocents on a massive scale that Hamas clearly anticipated. And possibly avoiding a global escalation. The conversation has changed significantly in six months, and a lot of that wacky left stuff has gone mainstream. 

 

 

Of course politicians with no true skin in the game or consequences can make empty requests for a ceasefire. Has any of it worked? Is it a good faith effort or is it empty political posturing? Do they really think there’ll be one or are they just getting a sound bite on record? Did Hamas see San Francisco’s City Council resolution for a ceasefire and say to themselves “Guys, this is what we’ve been waiting for. After millenia of fighting and killing, some nameless faceless politicians from thousands of miles away says we should stop.”
 

Hamas has repeatedly said they’ll never stop committing Oct 7th’s. How can anyone think a ceasefire is a reasonable request when that is one side of the bargaining table? It’s a lazy and unserious position.
 

 

13 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I don't agree with coddled self-satisfied cosplaying college protestors on plenty of things, and I go out of my way to de-romanticize their melodrama. But I do have to bring my A-game because they actually are well-versed on the history of the region. More than most. Forced to do my homework, I realized how much s#!t I'd forgotten. Or had wrong. And yeah, they didn't hesitate to bring up Yemen, either. I implore them to understand that the difference between Biden and Trump remains just massive enough to deserve their vote. It's a tough sell. 

 

Seems to me they actually do care about the Gazans, but your mileage may vary. If you think a cease fire isn't even viable, there's nowhere to go but down. 

I disagree. 

If they don’t know the difference or need it painstakingly explained to them, then that tells me all I need to know about their position and that they aren’t serious people.

 

Ultimately I think we can just agree to disagree on this. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

2 hours ago, Fru said:

Sorry man, but there’s not. Simping for a terrorist organization that wants to eradicate all Jews and infidels from Earth isn’t the same as a lunch counter sit in from the 60’s. Shaping the conversation with slanted views and deliberately misleading social media propaganda isn’t terribly helpful. 
 

 

 

Of course politicians with no true skin in the game or consequences can make empty requests for a ceasefire. Has any of it worked? Is it a good faith effort or is it empty political posturing? Do they really think there’ll be one or are they just getting a sound bite on record? Did Hamas see San Francisco’s City Council resolution for a ceasefire and say to themselves “Guys, this is what we’ve been waiting for. After millenia of fighting and killing, some nameless faceless politicians from thousands of miles away says we should stop.”
 

Hamas has repeatedly said they’ll never stop committing Oct 7th’s. How can anyone think a ceasefire is a reasonable request when that is one side of the bargaining table? It’s a lazy and unserious position.
 

 

I disagree. 

If they don’t know the difference or need it painstakingly explained to them, then that tells me all I need to know about their position and that they aren’t serious people.

 

Ultimately I think we can just agree to disagree on this. 

 

It seems to me that you have grabbed the worst possible strain of narcissistic leftist agitator to represent everyone who would protest on behalf of Palestine. That allowed you to ignore the points I was making and common positions I was conceding.

 

There was a revolutionary Marxist contingent in the Vietnam and Civil War protests, too, and they did hinder the larger movement to some extent. But they were also the folks at the ramparts who forced the conversation, and allowed the more moderate to make the stance more reasonable and ultimately mainstream. i.e. you were an idiot to have a poster of Mao in your room, but you weren't wrong about the Domino Theory. Martin Luther King benefitted from having Malcom X and the Black Panthers to his extreme left. 

 

Sounds like you don't think the conversation has shifted on Gaza, nor should it. But a disturbing common thread to Gaza, Vietnam and the Civil Rights era are the bystanders in the middle, often women and children, being killed in pretty horrific ways while people debate whether trying to stop those deaths is political posturing. If you know your history you obviously know Netanyahu's history, and why it's lazy, unserious and dangerous to support him unequivocally. It's an easy but false equivalency to think that equates to supporting Hamas. Israel itself is divided on what should happen next. If you don't think protesting college kids really care about the people of Gaza, you have at least one thing in common with them.   

 

Of course we can agree to disagree, but I still find it a worthy conversation, even with all the laughy emojis I'm getting. There's also a distinct possibility that we agree: the worst possible strain of narcissistic leftist agitator is really irritating. 

 

Now let's join hands and solve the Middle East!

[Lorewarn]

17 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

there are nothing but common threads in this kind of activism and protest.

 

3 hours ago, Fru said:

Simping for a terrorist organization that wants to eradicate all Jews and infidels from Earth isn’t the same as a lunch counter sit in from the 60’s

 

 

Learn the difference between how to compare and how to equate.

[TGHusker]

 

Reagan,  Star Wars and the Israel / Iran conflict this past week   Interesting OPED 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/wsj-opinion-joe-biden-was-wrong-star-wars-saved-israel/vi-BB1lOwTN?ocid=entnewsntp&t=311

[BigRedBuster]

I'm fine with this.

 

 

[ZRod]

16 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I'm fine with this.

 

 

No s#!t! You don't do your job or talk s#!t and you get fired. I'm strongly considering calling out executives at my company face to face in a town hall because of how they've trashed the company, but I would fully expect to be fired for that.

[BigRedBuster]

11 minutes ago, ZRod said:

No s#!t! You don't do your job or talk s#!t and you get fired. I'm strongly considering calling out executives at my company face to face in a town hall because of how they've trashed the company, but I would fully expect to be fired for that.

Yep.  You have the right to protest.  That doesn't mean there's not consequences with that.

[Fru]

1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

Yep.  You have the right to protest.  That doesn't mean there's not consequences with that.

Their selective outrage is also pretty telling. Google has been up to plenty of nefarious things over the decades which they apparently didn’t seem to mind. 
 

[Guy Chamberlin]

There's also a great case for boycotting all Apple products, but that's a line Apple-addicted social justice warriors can't cross. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

And some people totally understand the consequences of biting the hand that feeds them.  Props to Zach Galifinakas.

 

[ZRod]

15 minutes ago, Fru said:

Their selective outrage is also pretty telling. Google has been up to plenty of nefarious things over the decades which they apparently didn’t seem to mind. 
 

Who says they didn't have concerns before? There have been many articles over the years about Google employees voicing concerns on various issues. The latest I can think of is how incognito mode isn't really anonymous.

[Lorewarn]

17 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

And some people totally understand the consequences of biting the hand that feeds them.  Props to Zach Galifinakas.

 

 

 

 

 

"I've got an idea for sweat shops... air conditioning!"