Watson a candidate for the Miami(OH) head coach position

[Redmusky]

i guess the thing that bothers me the most, is it appears that developing Green was an after thought, don't know for sure, but it seems that way. until TM got injuried it appears Wats never gave a thought to what plays he would script around Green, as he tried to put Green in the TM playbook, obviously one size does not fit all....that's the real rub i have with Wats.

 

I totally agree. I think it's fair to say that Green does not have the makings of an all star who goes 23 for 30, with 300 yards and 3 TDs. But there is a wide margin between an all star QB and a guy who, in his two starts this season, didn't throw for more than 100 yards. Watson gets off the hook for not turning Green into an all star, but he has no excuse for failing to develop him into a serviceable QB who can still keep defenses honest. Put it this way: Green should have been capable of a CU-type performance at the start of this year.

 

Frankly, I think that Cam Newton is the biggest indictment of Watson's ability to coach QBs. What do I mean? Newton completely, unequivocally, and indisputably shatters the notion that behind every quality QB there is a quality coach. You cannot convince me that any coach on Auburn's staff can take credit for the fact that, in a one-year span, Newton went from JUCO commit to Heisman QB. What sets Newton apart are natural physical abilities that you can't teach. All he needed was a little polish to make him unstoppable at the college level.

 

Why am I bringing this up? Because Cam Newton definitely resolves the question of whether Watson should be given any credit for Martinez's early glory. The answer is most assuredly, "No." What made/makes Martinez special is insane acceleration and top speed, which is extremely rare at the QB position. Martinez was born with that ability; Watson didn't teach it. At the same time, Watson failed miserably at the things he could have done to improve Martinez's game. Teach him to live to fight another day by not being afraid to throw the ball away or take a sack when the play isn't there. Help him to learn to dump the ball off to Helu or Burkhead when nothing else is there. Put him in position to succeed by slowing down the pass rush with screen passes. Roll him out of the pocket so Martinez can operate where he's most comfortable---in space.

 

So when I evaluate Watson, I look back on his work minus Martinez, because in my opinion, he cannot take any credit for the best aspects that Martinez has (blazing speed), and deserves most of the blame for things he doesn't (an ability to make plays in the pocket or under pressure). And without Martinez on his resume, Watson's body of work with QBs looks all too mediocre.

 

I agree, but good coaching will also develop the ability for a player to adjust and be successful dealing with injuries. That has not happen at Nebraska.

[Hunter94]

settled, we have pretty much determined Watson has been little if any help when it comes to developing the offense and it's key players.......done, now what? i am NOT for waiting for Watson to get any better at coaching, we can't afford to wait any longer! i guarantee, if he is here next year he will cost us at least 3-4 losses, write it down, he will get his ass handed to him in the Big 10.

 

all i want for Christmas is a new OC!

[Glendower]

Vs Texas

UCLA 34

OU 28

ISU 28

Baylor 30

KState 39

OUS 33

A&M 24

 

NU 20

 

vs A&M

Stephen F Austin 7

LA Tech 16

Florida International 20

Kansas 10

Baylor 30

Texas 17

 

NU 6

 

Basically, everyone that A&M played scored more - a lot more than NU did. We were out scored by Stephen F Austin. And before you say that A&M had their scrubs in, SFA got that TD in the 2nd quarter. NU didn't get a TD at all. Seriously. We have actual talent on the offensive side of the ball. There is NO EXCUSE-- NONE for being outscored by SFA.

 

I honestly think that they could let any one of our backs, receivers, or anyone call the plays and get a SINGLE TD. For everyone who, in a panic, says "But who would replace him?!?!?!?!?!" Does it matter? Does it really matter when Stephen A Austin can get a TD against a team when NU can't? When baylor can hang 5 times as many points on them? 150% of our total on another?! You know a that there are probably OCs at many of the schools like Baylor who shake their heads and say, "How can he not get any touchdowns against *those* guys with *those* players?" Hell, we should grab up the OC from SDSU (236 yards against our D with players from SDSU-- what could he do with our players?).

[zoogs]

What sets Newton apart are natural physical abilities that you can't teach.

 

It is a LOT more than physical talent with Cam Newton.

 

He can quarterback, he can throw. And he grew up in Florida behind Tim Tebow before leaving under...circumstances. Anyway, if we had Cam Newton, it would not even be a discussion.

 

For some reason nobody will realize or admit the extent to which Green came here as an awful passer, how far he had to go, despite that being said time and time and time again. Instead all people saw were 4 stars and the Tommie Frazier comparisons because he was a dual threat QB who was starting a game as a freshman.

 

Cody has progressed but has also been jerked around this year. 2nd string? 3rd string? Getting in there for a few snaps just to get the hook after a mess up? Talk about showing no confidence in a guy. The biggest problem was that, IMO, against A&M. No faith in Cody, no opening it up and putting anything on Cody's shoulders.

 

Glendower, that is some really shallow logic there. It is the same type of logic that leads people to say "<Our Team> Team A beat <Mediocre> Team B, and Team B beat <National Title Contending> Team C, therefore Team A would beat Team C! It's proven!" Except I'm not sure anyone is really serious when they say stuff like that.

[cscott2win]

Who's the qb coach? Someone needs to teach TMart some mechanics with his feet (not to mention his throwing motion, decision making and etc..) and Green how to handle a snap. Maybe being the offensive coordinator and qb coach is too much. He's not doing very good at either.

[huskers1]

It isn't very logical to say that because they scored this many we should score this many but at the same time it says a little bit about their defense. Throw out SFA bc that could have and more than likely was a lucky score. However, look at all of the other scores against A&M: 16,20,30,17. We didn't even score one single td. That kind of goes into the same discussion with Wats not being able to adjust. Why not throw a wildcat pass in that game? Why not run a reverse in that game? That's what I mean when I say he just goes into a shell. He'll sure as hell run them when he's up by 2 scores or playing a lesser team, but I've only seen him run them once against an equal team, OU.

[Hercules]

It's pretty clear that there was no effective Plan B against Texas A&M. Cody looked completely helpless, and without Martinez at even close to full strength, he wasn't effective either. There was no plan for "What if Martinez gets hurt again?"

 

And Zoogies, the point that Hujan was trying to make about Cam Newton is that Newton is a guy that was pretty much successful as soon as he stepped onto Auburn's field. There hasn't been much coaching up. The same can be said about Martinez. Taylor is roughly the same kid as he was at the beginning of the year, but without his speed.

 

Now, you can blame Taylor for that lack of progress if you want. But a good teacher rarely blames a student. Good teachers blame themselves.

[bball_backer]

geesh, I clicked on this topic to see if anyone had heard anything lately about the Miami job. That was a waste of time.

[zoogs]

And Zoogies, the point that Hujan was trying to make about Cam Newton is that Newton is a guy that was pretty much successful as soon as he stepped onto Auburn's field. There hasn't been much coaching up. The same can be said about Martinez. Taylor is roughly the same kid as he was at the beginning of the year, but without his speed.

 

Now, you can blame Taylor for that lack of progress if you want. But a good teacher rarely blames a student. Good teachers blame themselves.

 

I am not Shawn Watson and neither are any of you We can blame whomever we want to blame, or instead, whomever we think deserves it.

 

 

Who's the qb coach? Someone needs to teach TMart some mechanics with his feet (not to mention his throwing motion, decision making and etc..) and Green how to handle a snap. Maybe being the offensive coordinator and qb coach is too much. He's not doing very good at either.

 

My GOODNESS there is some serious hyperbole about Taylor going on here. Taylor and Green both have their talents but both were completely raw at passing. Did nobody any attention to the people who, during Green's recruitment, warned: we need patience with the guy, he has too far to go with his passing, needs a redshirt year in the worst way, etc. I guess not. Did nobody pay attention during Taylor's recruitment all the way up to the QB race this fall, when people said Taylor is insanely streaky, liable to freak out in the pocket, can give us big plays with his feet but has so far to go in quarterbacking aspects as well as in throwing aspects? I guess not! It is like the Zac Lee injury story. I am as surprised to see this 'Taylor/Green should have been polished by now' line continue to be thrown out as I have been to hear 'Why didn't we see Zac Lee against Colorado?' *bangs head on wall.

 

I would argue that Taylor showed some improvement this year but again, the mental leaps and adjustments he needs to make, aren't things you can do more than tweak in the live-fire grind of a season. We saw Taylor making some strides, because the Taylor we saw go cold against SDSU or be limited early on sure wasn't the same guy who lit up Oklahoma State. However, the injury derailed a lot of his progress and nobody's really to blame about that.

 

And it's not like good coaches turn everything into gold. A lot of that is up to the player, as well. Or we can say that Ron Brown sucks because look at where J.T. Kerr is. Taylor was chosen with his physical skills in mind over his mental makeup, a gamble that it would all be worth it. It sort of has and he has time to come along in the other department. How fast or slow will be entirely up to him, since the sky is the limit and he has only to attain it.

 

You can say what you want about Watson's offensive philosophy, but I don't think those who are pretty critical of him would argue that QB development is an issue with SW.

 

* I don't like that there wasn't a Plan B for A&M. But who do you think that goes on?

[Glendower]

What sets Newton apart are natural physical abilities that you can't teach.

 

It is a LOT more than physical talent with Cam Newton.

 

He can quarterback, he can throw. And he grew up in Florida behind Tim Tebow before leaving under...circumstances. Anyway, if we had Cam Newton, it would not even be a discussion.

 

For some reason nobody will realize or admit the extent to which Green came here as an awful passer, how far he had to go, despite that being said time and time and time again. Instead all people saw were 4 stars and the Tommie Frazier comparisons because he was a dual threat QB who was starting a game as a freshman.

 

Cody has progressed but has also been jerked around this year. 2nd string? 3rd string? Getting in there for a few snaps just to get the hook after a mess up? Talk about showing no confidence in a guy. The biggest problem was that, IMO, against A&M. No faith in Cody, no opening it up and putting anything on Cody's shoulders.

 

Glendower, that is some really shallow logic there. It is the same type of logic that leads people to say "<Our Team> Team A beat <Mediocre> Team B, and Team B beat <National Title Contending> Team C, therefore Team A would beat Team C! It's proven!" Except I'm not sure anyone is really serious when they say stuff like that.

 

Saying that what I said is like something that I didn't say is very valid reasoning.

[C N Red]

Ya, probably time to get back on topic. I really haven't got a whole lot of good info on Watson and Miami(OH) since I started the thread.

 

Has anybody heard anything new and give us an update if you have. Thanks

[Hercules]

 

I would argue that Taylor showed some improvement this year but again, the mental leaps and adjustments he needs to make, aren't things you can do more than tweak in the live-fire grind of a season. We saw Taylor making some strides, because the Taylor we saw go cold against SDSU or be limited early on sure wasn't the same guy who lit up Oklahoma State. However, the injury derailed a lot of his progress and nobody's really to blame about that.

 

And it's not like good coaches turn everything into gold. A lot of that is up to the player, as well. Or we can say that Ron Brown sucks because look at where J.T. Kerr is. Taylor was chosen with his physical skills in mind over his mental makeup, a gamble that it would all be worth it. It sort of has and he has time to come along in the other department. How fast or slow will be entirely up to him, since the sky is the limit and he has only to attain it.

 

You can say what you want about Watson's offensive philosophy, but I don't think those who are pretty critical of him would argue that QB development is an issue with SW.

 

* I don't like that there wasn't a Plan B for A&M. But who do you think that goes on?

 

I don't get when you say, "How fast or slow will be entirely up to him, since the sky is the limit and he has only to attain it." I mean, are you saying that you think the kid doesn't want to get better? If we simply go off of what your very own Shawn Watson says about Taylor's competitive spirit, then we can conclude that the kid wants to get better. Given Taylor's talent, and given his physical tools, I'm not sure we saw as much improvement as we'd like to from him this year. Maybe that's because of the injury, or maybe another reason, but you don't see defensive coaches making excuses for their guys.

 

Instead, you see Lavonte David, the QB of the defense, earning 2nd team All-America honors in his first year in the scheme. There's a guy whose arc of improvement you can really see over the course of the year. He started the year making plenty of the same types of mistakes that Taylor made. He missed reads. He missed calls. He didn't communicate effectively. He managed to make plays because of his freak athleticism. But now, he's filling the right gaps, making the right calls, consistently getting the defense set up the right way. Name one guy on our offense who has shown that kind of improvement, from the beginning of fall camp to bowl season.

 

I don't know how much better Taylor got this year. I'm sure he improved a little bit, but I think that the Taylor we saw at Oklahoma State was the same Taylor we saw at Washington. I think it was the same Taylor we saw against Texas too, but his receivers actually caught the ball in Stillwater.

 

Some of this you can probably pin on Bo, if you want. The reason the defense develops faster is because Bo helps, and he's a genius strategist as well as an outstanding teacher. You could argue that he needs to buckle down with the offensive side of the ball and help get players developing on that side of the ball, and that he needs to be more influential with game-planning, and making sure the offense has a Plan B ready to go. But I'm not sure that's his job. Bo's a defensive strategist and teacher, and he's never going to be able to do with the offense what he can do with the defense. As the head coach, he needs to find assistant coaches that can do that stuff on the offensive side of the ball for him. I'm not sure that Watson is one of those guys.

 

Anyways, like I said. You can blame Taylor for taking bad sacks or throwing interceptions all you want. As a teacher, if your student hasn't learned something, that just means you haven't taught it well enough yet. Saying, "Count to 3 and if you still have the ball, just throw it away," isn't going to work for every student. I'm sure Watson has tried to teach Taylor in all of his areas where improvement is needed, but he obviously hasn't pressed the right buttons quite yet.

[ladyhawke]

Ya, probably time to get back on topic. I really haven't got a whole lot of good info on Watson and Miami(OH) since I started the thread.

 

Has anybody heard anything new and give us an update if you have. Thanks

 

I was just on the Miami (Ohio)'s message board and they said that Watson was in play as a head coach and specifically mentioned Michigan State offensive coordinator Don Treadwell as a possibility for the Miami (Ohio) job.

[BigWillie]

 

Instead, you see Lavonte David, the QB of the defense, earning 2nd team All-America honors in his first year in the scheme. There's a guy whose arc of improvement you can really see over the course of the year. He started the year making plenty of the same types of mistakes that Taylor made. He missed reads. He missed calls. He didn't communicate effectively. He managed to make plays because of his freak athleticism. But now, he's filling the right gaps, making the right calls, consistently getting the defense set up the right way. Name one guy on our offense who has shown that kind of improvement, from the beginning of fall camp to bowl season.

 

Lavonte is a product of his own hard work. I do not think there is a single guy on the team who puts in more time in film study than he does.

 

If others on our team *cough* Taylor *cough* dedicated themselves to the studying of the game like Lavonte does, I would guess their progression would be rapid and these mental lapses would not be as frequent.

 

Things like reading coverages, keying protection and reading the tendencies of players (i.e., DT or DE on reads) are picked up through film study even moreso than it is on a practice field with a coach over your shoulder.

[zoogs]

Saying that what I said is like something that I didn't say is very valid reasoning.

 

"We can't even score more than Stephen F. Austin against Texas A&M, therefore our offens sucks and we may as well get any player to call plays and manage at least a touchdown."

 

It's not that different.

 

Maybe that's because of the injury, or maybe another reason, but you don't see defensive coaches making excuses for their guys.

 

Do Shawn Watson or offensive coaches make excuses for their guys though? I don't follow a lot of the press clippings closely anymore, so maybe I'm wrong.....

 

Exactly what Willie said, and I would not put Taylor's lack of progression on Bo at all no matter how you spin it. The same way you could say Niles is Niles, Taylor is Taylor. The good, the bad, it's who he is. Honestly despite everything I cheer for this kid on the field just because he's made a fan of me and I like cheering for our quarterbacks. But it is what it is. Maybe someone else will be better at pressing Taylor's buttons than Shawn Watson. And maybe someone will be better at pressing Anthony West's buttons than Marvin Sanders.