Brion

[In the Deed the Glory]

There was nothing wrong with Beck's playcalling. Sure he definitely should've ran the ball more, but receivers were open on almost every passing play. Martinez never once looked at them because he rarely, if ever, goes through his progressions. The check down was there almost EVERY time. Taylor locks in on the primary read and if it's not there he panics and usually gets sacked.

 

But as an OC it is his responsibility to make sure the plays called are to the abilities of his players. There is no excuse for not knowing the faults and talents of a skill player, especially the QB. If we are seeing these players open, I guarantee it was seen in the booth by the coaches. So the real problem is either they aren't communicating this to Taylor, or he isn't listening or learning from mistakes.

[Husker Richard]

There was nothing wrong with Beck's playcalling. Sure he definitely should've ran the ball more, but receivers were open on almost every passing play. Martinez never once looked at them because he rarely, if ever, goes through his progressions. The check down was there almost EVERY time. Taylor locks in on the primary read and if it's not there he panics and usually gets sacked.

 

But as an OC it is his responsibility to make sure the plays called are to the abilities of his players. There is no excuse for not knowing the faults and talents of a skill player, especially the QB. If we are seeing these players open, I guarantee it was seen in the booth by the coaches. So the real problem is either they aren't communicating this to Taylor, or he isn't listening or learning from mistakes.

 

If Beck were to tailor (no pun intended) the passing game to suit Taylor's ability then we would have no passing game. How can you call an effective passing play if your QB can't go through his progressions? You have to bank on the fact that the primary read is going to be open, and that is a rarity. It's a no-win situation for Beck in terms of playcalling with Taylor at QB. Beck may have an incredible play dialed up, but if Taylor can't make the correct decision (which is usually the case) it matters not.

[IvabigN]

There was nothing wrong with Beck's playcalling. Sure he definitely should've ran the ball more, but receivers were open on almost every passing play. Martinez never once looked at them because he rarely, if ever, goes through his progressions. The check down was there almost EVERY time. Taylor locks in on the primary read and if it's not there he panics and usually gets sacked.

nothing wrong with Beck's play calling? really? so you admit TM rarely if ever, checks down and Beck still calls pass plays- maybe thats not bad play calling but it is the definition of insanity- oh and passing the ball with under two minutes to go in the half was a classic sign of "bad play calling" When you have a QB that throws the ball like a kid skipping rocks, having wide open WR's isn't the problem, the problem starts when you call a pass play.

 

That's the definition of a terrible quarterback. You can't run the ball 100% of the time, the D will eventually stuff it and then people like you will bitch about why Beck isn't calling passing plays. Martinez is an athlete playing QB and he severely limits the potential of this offense. We have way too many weapons to sputter like we did last night.

 

My retort was directed at Becks playcalling, not the fact that we have a Kid who throws like a girl playing QB- and in this game we would have been better off running 100% of the time, hence my opinion that Beck called a terrible game- at the very least, throwing the ball before halftime was just plain dumb.

Becks playcalling reminded me of callahan, and thats not a good thought- TM at QB? there are plenty of other threads on that insanity

[In the Deed the Glory]

There was nothing wrong with Beck's playcalling. Sure he definitely should've ran the ball more, but receivers were open on almost every passing play. Martinez never once looked at them because he rarely, if ever, goes through his progressions. The check down was there almost EVERY time. Taylor locks in on the primary read and if it's not there he panics and usually gets sacked.

 

But as an OC it is his responsibility to make sure the plays called are to the abilities of his players. There is no excuse for not knowing the faults and talents of a skill player, especially the QB. If we are seeing these players open, I guarantee it was seen in the booth by the coaches. So the real problem is either they aren't communicating this to Taylor, or he isn't listening or learning from mistakes.

 

If Beck were to tailor (no pun intended) the passing game to suit Taylor's ability then we would have no passing game. How can you call an effective passing play if your QB can't go through his progressions? You have to bank on the fact that the primary read is going to be open, and that is a rarity. It's a no-win situation for Beck in terms of playcalling with Taylor at QB. Beck may have an incredible play dialed up, but if Taylor can't make the correct decision (which is usually the case) it matters not.

 

That was kind of my point...I just didn't say the way I wanted I guess. It is his decision who plays, is it not?

[JTrain]

There was nothing wrong with Beck's playcalling. Sure he definitely should've ran the ball more, but receivers were open on almost every passing play. Martinez never once looked at them because he rarely, if ever, goes through his progressions. The check down was there almost EVERY time. Taylor locks in on the primary read and if it's not there he panics and usually gets sacked.

nothing wrong with Beck's play calling? really? so you admit TM rarely if ever, checks down and Beck still calls pass plays- maybe thats not bad play calling but it is the definition of insanity- oh and passing the ball with under two minutes to go in the half was a classic sign of "bad play calling" When you have a QB that throws the ball like a kid skipping rocks, having wide open WR's isn't the problem, the problem starts when you call a pass play.

 

That's the definition of a terrible quarterback. You can't run the ball 100% of the time, the D will eventually stuff it and then people like you will bitch about why Beck isn't calling passing plays. Martinez is an athlete playing QB and he severely limits the potential of this offense. We have way too many weapons to sputter like we did last night.

 

The shorter routes were open quite a bit last night. You can utilize the tight ends and Rex in the flats or over the middle. As the playcaller, part of the responsibility is understanding TM's complete refusal/inability to look through his progressions, and call plays that give him easier, shorter first reads.

[In the Deed the Glory]

There was nothing wrong with Beck's playcalling. Sure he definitely should've ran the ball more, but receivers were open on almost every passing play. Martinez never once looked at them because he rarely, if ever, goes through his progressions. The check down was there almost EVERY time. Taylor locks in on the primary read and if it's not there he panics and usually gets sacked.

nothing wrong with Beck's play calling? really? so you admit TM rarely if ever, checks down and Beck still calls pass plays- maybe thats not bad play calling but it is the definition of insanity- oh and passing the ball with under two minutes to go in the half was a classic sign of "bad play calling" When you have a QB that throws the ball like a kid skipping rocks, having wide open WR's isn't the problem, the problem starts when you call a pass play.

 

That's the definition of a terrible quarterback. You can't run the ball 100% of the time, the D will eventually stuff it and then people like you will bitch about why Beck isn't calling passing plays. Martinez is an athlete playing QB and he severely limits the potential of this offense. We have way too many weapons to sputter like we did last night.

 

The shorter routes were open quite a bit last night. You can utilize the tight ends and Rex in the flats or over the middle. As the playcaller, part of the responsibility is understanding TM's complete refusal/inability to look through his progressions, and call plays that give him easier, shorter first reads.

 

This...

[zoogs]

I just don't understand why Taylor was still in there after throwing three interceptions. Any other team would have gone to the backup quarterback after that. Why didn't we?

Because he's our quarterback right now and he probably gives us the best chance to win. That's not saying they don't have confidence in Carnes, but I don't think they want to make the same mistake they did with Green, where he was flip-flopped and it looked like it damaged his confidence.

 

I fully believe that a QB switch doesn't give us a better chance to win this year and doesn't make sense - not yet - for either the team or Brion - but I think we have to re-look at the idea that Martinez gives us the best chance to win.

 

Seems like limiting Martinez gives us a far better chance to win in big games rather than relying on him. And by that I mean we need to give Rex the Wildcat snaps 15-20 times a game. Maybe more.

[corncraze]

I don't think the staff is very comfortable with Carnes at QB. So, why not give Turner a chance at QB? The guy has serious playmaking abilities and I wouldn't doubt he throws the ball any worse than Martinez.

[zoogs]

You do realize that Cody Green played in the highest level in Texas, right?

 

Also, Brion is NOT a pass first QB. He played at Bradenton Manatee High School, they are a triple option team. They pass very little and even less non-play action stuff.

 

However, I would have liked to have seen him get some time in the latter stages of last night's game.

 

Is this based on what the announcers for the last game Brion was in said? I'm not sure that's even correct. I would say Brion is a true dual-threat in style. He scrambles in the pocket and keeps plays alive, but he also keeps his eyes downfield. His passing ability is also sharp. He is able even in HS to make the throws that passing QBs do. So I don't think you can really argue with him being more pass first.

 

I know somebody said to not look at the highlights, but seriously, does THIS look like a triple option team to you? I see a lot of shotguun reads. A LOT of shotgun. Some under center too.

 

 

I don't know, it's possible that not a single triple option play made it into the highlight reel, but this really does not look like a triple option team like those announcers said.

[miamihrrcns2001]

Am I the only one who thought Martinez looked much better last night? Guys he started out 5 of 7. Really though, can you blame him for not being comfortable in the pocket after dealing with last years oline? Teach him to check all the way down to Rex, not force a pass when there's an easier one available and he will be effective. Taylor's got a decent arm, and he showed it last night to some extent (how about that perfectly placed ball to turner?). He showed he hasnt reached his ceiling. Which is a very very good thing. So no, I don't believe it is time to turn to brine, but he needs his time at the helm as well.

[VA Husker Fan]

Some of you guys are making pretty good points for why Taylor should remain qb but there is one thing I want to say. Brion is not Cody Green. Brion has seen greater athletes in high school than what he'll see in the big ten. I don't buy into the whole confidence argument, because wouldn't throwing 3 picks and getting sacked all night long be a confidence killer?

 

At some point if Taylor continues to mess up (and we know he will), Brion has to get a shot. We've already seen the ceiling of Taylor, he will not change his mechanics, he continues to stare down receivers, panic in the pocket, fumble, predetermines his receivers, and throws across his body. There are Senior's in high school who have this stuff down.

 

You do realize that Cody Green played in the highest level in Texas, right?

 

Also, Brion is NOT a pass first QB. He played at Bradenton Manatee High School, they are a triple option team. They pass very little and even less non-play action stuff.

 

However, I would have liked to have seen him get some time in the latter stages of last night's game.

Wrong, he didn't. Green was 4A. There are some very good players in 4A, and some good teams, but it's not 5A.

[Hunter94]

Let him grow. Confident. Option ready. Accuracy. Better presence. Lateral movement with speed.

 

He might not be ready but neither is Taylor. Throw him at slot. If he doesn't like it. show him the door.

 

Enough is enough.

 

Also, expecting Taylor to be your QB til he has exhausted his eligibility will basically have wasted Brion's as well. Give it to the guy who is a natural Qb and let his instincts take over when needed. Taylor doesn't have Qb instincts. You know it, I know it, The world knows it.

 

I know this is some folks initially reaction, but as bad as it may have looked tonight Brion will be a step backwards.

 

 

absolutely, 100% correct.

[Hunter94]

Am I the only one who thought Martinez looked much better last night? Guys he started out 5 of 7. Really though, can you blame him for not being comfortable in the pocket after dealing with last years oline? Teach him to check all the way down to Rex, not force a pass when there's an easier one available and he will be effective. Taylor's got a decent arm, and he showed it last night to some extent (how about that perfectly placed ball to turner?). He showed he hasnt reached his ceiling. Which is a very very good thing. So no, I don't believe it is time to turn to brine, but he needs his time at the helm as well.

 

 

i agree, he is servicable as a thrower, IF he can get his head screwed on right and start thinking like a passer first and a runner 2nd.

[Danny Bateman]

Let him grow. Confident. Option ready. Accuracy. Better presence. Lateral movement with speed.

 

He might not be ready but neither is Taylor. Throw him at slot. If he doesn't like it. show him the door.

 

Enough is enough.

 

Also, expecting Taylor to be your QB til he has exhausted his eligibility will basically have wasted Brion's as well. Give it to the guy who is a natural Qb and let his instincts take over when needed. Taylor doesn't have Qb instincts. You know it, I know it, The world knows it.

 

I know this is some folks initially reaction, but as bad as it may have looked tonight Brion will be a step backwards.

 

 

absolutely, 100% correct.

Seriously though... Putting in Brion would be the equivalent of taking a step backwards momentarily in hopes of eventually taking many steps forward. It would be a move made for the future. If you're gonna do it, you're gonna have to break the kid in eventually. During the meat of the big 10 schedule probably isn't the best time, but I digress...

 

You've seen it before. Ohio State replaced Todd Boeckman with Terelle Pryor. Virginia Tech replaced Sean Glennon with Tyrod Taylor. Hell, the Notre Dame replaced Dayne Crist with Tommy Rees. It happens... You realize you do not have the right guy under center... he might just not have the "it" that QB's need... and you replace them with someone that might. Sometimes it takes an ass kicking to realize that and make the change (Ohio State got rolled by USC right before Pryor took over, and Notre Dame looked like crap with Crist at the helm this year).

 

I've said this multiple times, and from my perspective, this is how I see our QB situation:

 

We either run a pass-limited offense with Taylor and hope we don't go down big or get in holes where we need to pass, or put in Brion and struggle some and hope to develop a more multi-dimensional offensive attack.

[Enhance]

Some of you guys are making pretty good points for why Taylor should remain qb but there is one thing I want to say. Brion is not Cody Green. Brion has seen greater athletes in high school than what he'll see in the big ten. I don't buy into the whole confidence argument, because wouldn't throwing 3 picks and getting sacked all night long be a confidence killer?

 

At some point if Taylor continues to mess up (and we know he will), Brion has to get a shot. We've already seen the ceiling of Taylor, he will not change his mechanics, he continues to stare down receivers, panic in the pocket, fumble, predetermines his receivers, and throws across his body. There are Senior's in high school who have this stuff down.

First off, you might have a point about the athletes, but the sophistication and skill level of B1G players is vastly greater than any high school team. Seeing good athletes in high school doesn't mean you're ready for division one football. Green played in the second toughest conference in Texas, after all, and he struggled for various reasons.

 

Second of all, what do you mean if Taylor keeps struggling then Brion deserves a shot? If Martinez is being asked to throw 20+ times a game, that's on the coaches and not on Martinez. If players around Martinez aren't helping him to play well, that's on them as well. Now, if Martinez is fumbling all the time, throwing multiple interceptions on only 10-15 attempts consistently and just doing a genuinely poor job of executing the offense, then perhaps Brion will deserve a shot.

 

However, if the coaches put Martinez in a position to play well, then Brion can continue to sit back and take the mental reps he desperately needs. I've said it in other threads before - if we run the ball at least 75% of the time, and pass efficiently, Martinez can win us football games. That means we need to do play action, pass on long third downs or if we need a quick change of pace (i.e. maybe a WR screen or something like that). Asking Martinez to pass like he was asked last night is going to result in us seeing similar point totals at the end of the game.

 

Simply put, I'm not under the impression that our O-line at this point is good enough to run 75% of the time and get positive yards consistently especially against the big boys. I think we need to be more balanced than that and I see an advantage with Bell, Reed, Turner, and Enunwa. By running 75% of the time, we've wasted talent and opportunities. If we had a QB who could consistently throw it, Nebraska would be such a threat that we could give our D time to grow up and still win.

 

At the end of the day, I just want to be balanced and not have such a glaring weakness that doesn't allow us to be consistent.

I agree with you in that respect. I don't think our o-line or offense in general is capable of dominating games if we run 75% of the time, then again our offense is also not capable of being balanced with Martinez. They're just not. He's good for at least one interception a game when asked to play pocket passer all game.

 

That's why I believe there will be growing pains, but they're necessary growing pains if we want this offense to be anywhere close to a good offense. And right now, I think this offense can be pretty good if they're utilized efficiently. Martinez can't throw well enough to win us games on his arm alone, but I honestly believe he's a much better option than any freshman quarterback. You throw in Carnes and you set the offense back even further.

 

The back-up always looks better on paper when the starter struggles. And as I've said before it's in games like last night, where we get away from what we're doing well, that people begin to harp on our "identity". It's tough to have an identity when the one we've been trying to build, as a running team, gets pushed to the side like a troubled child.

 

Edit - I think the proof of this started in the second quarter. Martinez started out throwing the ball pretty well, and we were running effectively. All of a sudden they call three straight pass plays, he throws an interception, UW scores, and then we depend on Martinez' arm. We got away from what was working. If we get stuffed on two straight run plays and throw an incomplete pass and have to punt the football, that doesn't mean we drop the run on the next drive especially if we had success earlier in the game.