The Religious Discussion of 2012

[JJ Husker]

Traditionally, the person making an assertion proves it up.

 

You can assume whatever you'd like about my beliefs about our welfare system.

 

It's quite an indictment of your religion if Christianity has to rely on bells and whistles to attract converts.

 

I don't really care what you consider traditional. I stated that was my impression and it still is. If you don't agree or don't like it, I can live with that.

 

Thanks, I will continue to make assumptions at least until you actually clarify what your beliefs really are.

 

You don't need to validate your religious beliefs to me or anyone else. If you are happiest taking potshots at Christians or Catholics or whoever, please don't let that stop you from attempting to tell everyone else how much better you understand Jesus' message than they do. I'm sure you've got it all down much better than any organized religion or the rest of us sinners.

[carlfense]

If by Christian standard you mean the way Christ himself lived then yes it would be quite unfair.

I didn't mean to imply that it should be anything more than an aspirational (and unobtainable) standard. That said, excusing easily corrected behavior is and should be beneath the religion.

[carlfense]

I don't really care what you consider traditional. I stated that was my impression and it still is. If you don't agree or don't like it, I can live with that.

Willful ignorance is perfectly acceptable if that is what you prefer. Generally, I prefer to base my beliefs on clearly articulable facts. Like you said, it doesn't really matter to me what you choose to believe.

 

Thanks, I will continue to make assumptions at least until you actually clarify what your beliefs really are.

What specific beliefs would you like to know about?

 

You don't need to validate your religious beliefs to me or anyone else. If you are happiest taking potshots at Christians or Catholics or whoever, please don't let that stop you from attempting to tell everyone else how much better you understand Jesus' message than they do. I'm sure you've got it all down much better than any organized religion or the rest of us sinners.

If comparing the actions of a Christian organizations to the teachings of their own Christ equals taking potshots . . . well . . . guilty.

[HSKR]

If by Christian standard you mean the way Christ himself lived then yes it would be quite unfair.

I didn't mean to imply that it should be anything more than an aspirational (and unobtainable) standard. That said, excusing easily corrected behavior is and should be beneath the religion.

 

Can't disagree with that.

[navysker]

And you never answered my question, are you upset that WHS and other high schools are spending millions of dollars on astroturf playing fields? Afterall, they could have used that money for other things. Like for new books or other things that could help students improve their learning. Or is it just the Catholic schools spending millions of dollars for their students that upset you?

Are those other schools raising money at worship services in the name of Christianity? Just curious about that part I guess. It seems like that's a quite relevant little detail that you're conveniently omitting. If you're truly wondering, yes. I am upset when high schools build ridiculous athletic facilities while academic spending stagnates.

 

My turn. Where is the limit for you? Is there some point where you would say "OK. They should have spent that money in a more Christian fashion"? Or do you blindly defer to church authority? Does a 10 million dollar church with 80 foot ceilings and imported exposed wooden beams and gold inlaid floor tiles allow you to worship Christ more effectively?

 

(This is the type of thing that I'm talking about: http://abcnews.go.co...84#.T1-5bWLP2RM )

 

 

Funny you should mention this. I am currently living in Italy. The Vatican Bank, which is inside Vatican City, faces money laundering charges over here as well. http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-philadelphia/vatican-bank-faces-money-laundering-charges I am not surprised their money is going everywhere any Catholic church can hide it. Mainly it is due to a new law in Italy that states any transaction over 1000 euro must be done electronically because the government here is cracking down on tax evaders. http://www.stripes.com/news/italy-transactions-exceeding-1-000-euros-must-be-electronic-1.165892. My guess is it is because of the European Union has almost fallen apart and Italy took a big hit when it did. The church over here could practically pay for the Italians to be in good standing order in the world but doesn't want to face taxes here.

[Husker_x]

Traditionally, the person making an assertion proves it up.

 

You can assume whatever you'd like about my beliefs about our welfare system.

 

It's quite an indictment of your religion if Christianity has to rely on bells and whistles to attract converts.

 

Carlfense, of course Christianity has to rely on bells and whistles, and for two very good reasons.

 

1. It can't rely on verifiably accurate statements about reality.

 

2. It exists in religiously mixed culture whose status as mixed is protected by a staunchly secular Constitution, and Christianity can't even seem to get itself to agree with itself on anything, hence ever widening denominations. Since they can't force people to attend church through force or (more recently) social pressure, they have to adopt ulterior methods of getting asses in seats. Branding and advertising. McChurches are nothing more than the outgrowth of marketing strategies. The milquetoast Diet Christianity so many of these McChurches serve is the direct result of people being perfectly able and willing to walk away from a church whose message is too intrusive in their lives. Who wants sinners in the hands of an angry God when you can get Joel Osteen and his clownish smile telling you to go after your best life now? Add on top of that coffee bars, bookstores, full orchestras with professional musicians--what are we watching if not an open competition for attendees between the supposed one true faith?

 

I honestly can't see a difference between that and the entertainment industry.

[jsneb83]

Another thing to possibly consider about the renovations and artifacts that are present in the Church are how many of those things are donated to the Church from the parishioners, or how much of the renovation is done by the parishioners. I know at the Church I go to, almost all the paintings, statues, and flowers are donated by the parishioners. The altar that we have now was made and donated to the church. Our former priest even renovated the pews and floor on his own time.

 

Now I'm not saying that alot of Churches don't spend millions of dollars to expand on their Parishes. Just pointing out that not all parishes spend millions for renovations, mostly smaller ones where the money isn't as plentiful. So alot of those parishes look the way they look because of the involvement of parishioners.

[carlfense]

Ctd:

[The Pope] just wears red Prada slippers, is

from a GQ stud personal assistant, insists on ermine in his hats and has now commissioned a papal eau de cologne! Maybe it's just because I've read a new biography of Saint Francis that these prissy extravagances take me aback. But can you imagine Jesus in Prada?

http://andrewsulliva...ot-gay-ctd.html

['SkersRule]

Ctd:

[The Pope] just wears red Prada slippers, is

from a GQ stud personal assistant, insists on ermine in his hats and has now commissioned a papal eau de cologne! Maybe it's just because I've read a new biography of Saint Francis that these prissy extravagances take me aback. But can you imagine Jesus in Prada?

http://andrewsulliva...ot-gay-ctd.html

 

Are you saying that Jesus couldn't rock a pair of high heels? That's blasphemy!

[walksalone]

Why sometimes religious folks can go batsh*t crazy...

 

[It'sNotAFakeID]

People who share their religious views with you, almost never want you to share yours with them--Dave Barry

[Enhance]

The strangest thing about religious (and non-religious view points) are the steps to which people go to show others why someone is wrong and someone else is right. I usually avoid religious discussion unless I feel someone isn't open-minded about things. Close-mindedness is why there have been religious wars and things done in the name of "God" for thousands of years. I crusade to try and show people how pathetic their attempts to be correct really are. I don't think many people know as much as they think they know.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Except for me, I know more than all of you combined. And don't tell me I'm wrong, I'm not; you're wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[akita]

I have to go with Jehovah witnesses having the truth. If you actually study them, they actuall do what first century christians did. They do not celebrate birthdays. they do not celebrate the pagan customs of easter and christmas. They actually get baptized when they are of an older age to make the dedication. They do not participate in politics. They refuse to get involved in wars. all the leaders of the group are volunteers and recive no money. ( Except for people serving at Bethel and missionaries and the money they recieve to do their duties is very small.) They are always polite and understand that satan is running this system of things. They are always positive. OOh also, they beleive in being clean to serve their God. In other words if you want to go out and act the fool and be a hypracrite they do something called: Disfellowshipping. That means you have no contact with the organization. You are allowed to come back to meetings though and show repentence,but no one will speak with you at the meeting until you are cleared by the Elders and show repentence. Other religions as long as you give the 10% you can do whatever you want and never face a consequence at the church you attend. Also they do not require you to pay the 10% tything. Plus they do not send a basket around the place to force you to give. They have discreet money boxes where you put your donation in.

[Enhance]

Churches don't force you to give in the donation platters...