The Christian Response to Jason Collins

[sd'sker]

Why is it assumed Islamaphobes in Tennessee are Christians?

 

Oops.............bail, bail, bail, pull cord on chute

you ruined it, i tried to get it back on topic.

 

i did the research, it is a overwhelmingly majority christian community.

 

this is an interesting rundown of what they had to do to get their mosque. we live in a country where muslims are threatened with violence to practice their religion, yet christians find a way to be victimized and feel the need to pray for religious freedom.

[Junior]

has christianity been attacked in this thread? other than people being happy for a homosexual, even if it is an abomination unto the lord?

This perhaps?

 

When was the last time Muslim moralism was celebrated in this country? Or Hinduism? Or scientology-ism? I guess I don't understand why Christians feel such a need to have a pat on the back and be told how wonderful their religion is, when that same group of people often goes out of their way to ostracize other religions.

 

It wasn't an attack on Christianity, rather a direct response to someone complaining that Christianity wasn't celebrated enough:

 

 

I don't want to derail this thread into something it shouldn't be, so maybe this should be it's own thread, but I disagree with the statement that Christianity is celebrated.

 

You mention Christmas and Easter. Originally pagan holidays adopted by Christians for their own celebrations of their faith, and now re-adopted by the mass public as secular holidays focused on different things. Christmas and Easter mean wildly different things to different groups, and the most widespread and permeating American versions leave little to no room for centrality of God or the gospel.

 

The rest of the examples I'm not really sure how to approach; but my point is this. Christian moralism and ideology is celebrated...sometimes....except for when it is in disagreement with the prevailing opinions of the time....and minus nearly all of the doctrinal and theological framework. Just stripped down to the messages of good and bad.

 

It's fascinating to me how a country founded upon religious freedom (among other things) can look so eerily like a Christendom, where most people who claim the faith do so out of their citizenship to the country and their culture verses claiming it out of a personal conversion experience and relationship.

 

This is especially poignant in the light of recent events with the Boston bombers. Many, many of the same people complaining about a war on Christmas or how Obamacare is infringing on their 2nd amendment rights are currently suggesting that we should be wire tapping mosques, we should stop giving student visa's to Muslims, and the bomber's wife should be in jail for wearing a hijab. But FREEDOM OF RELIGION!!!

[JJ Husker]

Why is it assumed Islamaphobes in Tennessee are Christians?

 

Oops.............bail, bail, bail, pull cord on chute

you ruined it, i tried to get it back on topic.

 

i did the research, it is a overwhelmingly majority christian community.

 

this is an interesting rundown of what they had to do to get their mosque. we live in a country where muslims are threatened with violence to practice their religion, yet christians find a way to be victimized and feel the need to pray for religious freedom.

 

And if we were in a country in the mideast, we would live in a country where Christians are threatened with and experience violence to practice their religion, yet the victimization would not seem to be too common of a sentiment. Must be that dang sharia control those other countries have. A lot of people want to think the Christian element in this country is just as controlling but that simply isn't the case. But fact of the matter is that the vast majority here are Christian and it stands to reason that the majority doesn't want to make lopsided allowances for the minority. I don't make the rules of human nature, sorry.

[knapplc]

I'll be pulling all the Christian conversation from this thread tomorrow. I knew that, by pointing out that more than half the conversation had skewed toward Christian defense (despite a lack of criticism) that it would alter the course of this thread, but it was an experiment I was willing to take and knew I could clean up.

 

Christianity is not under attack here. Never was, not before my post stating that over half the thread was skewed toward the Christian defense. But it amply served to show the point that Christian hackles are so easily raised. And that's nothing short of bizarre in a nation where 3/4 of the population self-identifies as Christian.

 

So it goes.

[JJ Husker]

Sorry for the extra work knapp. From my point of view, the discussion trended away because the thread subject was pretty played out. Might just be me but I don't see a lot of societal forces keeping people in anymore. So, it makes some sense that many here aren't very shocked by Collins announcement and therefore looking for something possibly a little more contentious to discuss. Christianity seems to be a pretty good go to for that here on HB. Even if we keep rehashing the same old tired ground, time after time.

[sd'sker]

And if we were in a country in the mideast, we would live in a country where Christians are threatened with and experience violence to practice their religion, yet the victimization would not seem to be too common of a sentiment.

and if i lived in those countries i would defend christians' rights to freely participate in their religion.

 

Must be that dang sharia control those other countries have. A lot of people want to think the Christian element in this country is just as controlling but that simply isn't the case.

who wants to think this? who would compare sharia law to the behavior demonstrated by some christians here?

 

But fact of the matter is that the vast majority here are Christian and it stands to reason that the majority doesn't want to make lopsided allowances for the minority. I don't make the rules of human nature, sorry.

what are the lopsided allowance that you reference?

[Landlord]

And that's nothing short of bizarre in a nation where 3/4 of the population self-identifies as Christian.

 

 

 

I think it's more bizarre that 3/4 of the population self-identifies as Christian.

[BigRedBuster]

who wants to think this? who would compare sharia law to the behavior demonstrated by some christians here?

 

I've seen/heard it happen many times. I'm not sure if it has specifically happened on this board, but with some people, it is a common argument they fall back on in some situations.

[carlfense]

It wasn't an attack on Christianity, rather a direct response to someone complaining that Christianity wasn't celebrated enough:

You've got it all wrong Junior. Here is how you do it:

 

1. Complain that a gay NBA player comes out and is covered in the media.

2. Raise the false claim that the media never cared that Tebow was a christian and/or was ostracized for his religion.

3. Ask why christianity was being discussed.

4. Profit? Maybe?

[JJ Husker]

And if we were in a country in the mideast, we would live in a country where Christians are threatened with and experience violence to practice their religion, yet the victimization would not seem to be too common of a sentiment.

and if i lived in those countries i would defend christians' rights to freely participate in their religion.

 

 

 

I appreciate the sentiment and like to think I would do the same but, that is a whole lot easier said than done. It's one thing to defend that type of thing here, in a free country, on a message board, and quite another to have to do it for real, with your life actually on the line, on the streets of Baghdad or Tehran or .....

 

 

 

Must be that dang sharia control those other countries have. A lot of people want to think the Christian element in this country is just as controlling but that simply isn't the case.

who wants to think this? who would compare sharia law to the behavior demonstrated by some christians here?

 

I've seen this happen many times in this forum, where some posters will compare the actions of Christians to the actions of more fundamentalist Muslims. I'm not going to go digging for links but it definitely has occurred here. My point was that it always seems there are those who are more than willing to claim that Christians have no right to push back against non-Christian elements simply because they are in the majority. This thread alone has multiple examples of people claiming a Christian persecution complex and expressing utter dismay that these people feel any of their views are being infringed upon. On one hand, it is true Christians really have not much to fear in this country. But, on the other hand, there is also no denying there are secular forces, that if they got their way, would like nothing better than to expunge Christianity from our country. It's understandable when people don't like being the minority just as it is understandable that people in the majority want to keep it that way.

 

 

But fact of the matter is that the vast majority here are Christian and it stands to reason that the majority doesn't want to make lopsided allowances for the minority. I don't make the rules of human nature, sorry.

what are the lopsided allowance that you reference?

Lopsided allowance was maybe not the best phrase for what I meant. I was simply referencing the realities of our demographics. Our country is

72% White & 76% Christian yet in 1990 it was 86% Christian and now 50% of children under the age of 1 belong to minority groups and 69% of our population growth is attributable to Hispanics/Latinos. I think those facts make it quite clear why white Christians feel they are being pressured. As I said earlier, on one hand we're still the majority so we can't whine too much but, with drastic demographics changes like this, it is very understandable that people within this majority feel their status is being eroded. It clearly is. So, it is more than a little self serving to poo poo the sentiment as simply a whining persecution complex.

[knapplc]

72% White & 76% Christian yet in 1990 it was 86% Christian and now 50% of children under the age of 1 belong to minority groups and 69% of our population growth is attributable to Hispanics/Latinos. I think those facts make it quite clear why white Christians feel they are being pressured. As I said earlier, on one hand we're still the majority so we can't whine too much but, with drastic demographics changes like this, it is very understandable that people within this majority feel their status is being eroded. It clearly is. So, it is more that a little self serving to poo poo the sentiment as simply a whining persecution complex.

 

I'm a white dude. In what way should I feel "pressured" by demographic changes in a country whose moniker has been, since its inception, "The Great Melting Pot?"

[HuskerShark]

Tim Tebow has something to say about it....and honestly...he has a point to some degree....

https://www.facebook...6&type=1&ref=nf

 

I don't think he has any point. What he's saying there is that he wants the media to notarize him because he's a Christian athlete. He's using his faith as a way to garner attention, and that is wrong. Christianity is not discriminated against in sports and you hear athletes all the time thanking God.

 

Homosexuality had no place in the big four sports because it wasn't something you'd associate with an athlete. The fact that Jason Collins came out and is an athlete is monumental only because it starts the processing of recognizing that there are many athletes who are gay.

 

I bet you won't hear Collins at every press conference mention the fact that he's gay like Tebow mentions Jesus.

 

To be fair, Tebow isn't the one who came up with that. Here is the original cartoon that I saw yesterday:

 

[JJ Husker]

72% White & 76% Christian yet in 1990 it was 86% Christian and now 50% of children under the age of 1 belong to minority groups and 69% of our population growth is attributable to Hispanics/Latinos. I think those facts make it quite clear why white Christians feel they are being pressured. As I said earlier, on one hand we're still the majority so we can't whine too much but, with drastic demographics changes like this, it is very understandable that people within this majority feel their status is being eroded. It clearly is. So, it is more that a little self serving to poo poo the sentiment as simply a whining persecution complex.

 

I'm a white dude. In what way should I feel "pressured" by demographic changes in a country whose moniker has been, since its inception, "The Great Melting Pot?"

 

I did not say you, or anyone, should feel pressured. I was simply trying to give an explanation of why some people might be sensing change that could compromise their majority status. The Great Melting Pot moniker is a grand ideal but it really has not been put to the test. The reality is that this country of ours has always been made up of a clear white Christian majority. I'm not claiming it should or shouldn't be the great melting pot or that Christians should or shouldn't feel one way or the other. I'm simply offering an explanation as I see it based on the reality of demographic changes.

[knapplc]

You're not offering any explanation, you're saying you feel pressured, and that "others" might as well. I'm asking you to explain why. Please do so.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Yeah, I didn't catch that until after, still whomever made that doesn't have a point.