Guy Chamberlin Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 What is wrong is that he is implying they need to be changed. He'll show them Jesus Christ so they understand they are sinners and won't be gay anymore. Just like you'd counsel an alcoholic to see Jesus Christ and change. Since JJHusker felt that Ron Brown wouldn't make gay athletes feel uncomfortable, and my argument is that he would... tell me how I'm wrong. Do you think counseling gay athletes to understand that their gayness is a sin makes them feel good about themselves or comfortable with a such prominent figure in the athletic department? Actually, I explained this much better (below) than you restated it. That's a fair point but I would like to believe well read and knowledgeable fans, as I believe many HBers are, should also know his positions on judging others and the difference between being against something he views as sinful but not being against the sinner. I'm not saying I agree with his public stance on it but I sure haven't seen any other evidence that he is anything less than accepting and supportive of those he interacts with. But I sure can see where simply knowing a person is opposed to homosexuality could cause a gay person to be uncomfortable even with no additional reasons to feel that way. Come on, can you imagine feeling comfortable around Ron Brown if you were gay? After he said this: "I think Christians should love a homosexual teammate just like they would any other teammate," Brown said. "Let me tell you what else is in that locker room. There are thieves, liars, people who lust, people addicted to pornography, even some players who are alcoholics. There are all kinds of sinners in that locker room."Ah, the age-old tactic of likening gay people to liars and alcoholics. Real welcoming, right? Then: "You put your arms around that person struggling with homosexuality and you help walk him or her to the truth of Jesus Christ, just as you would any other player involved in any other sin." Sure... love the sinner, but try to change them. Seems so... welcoming. Seems you chose to gloss over and ignore the direct statement Ron made (that I bolded) Yeah, it's the second half of the statement, the part you want to ignore, where things get a little tricky. Keeping in mind that Ron Brown made most of these statements while giving public testimony opposing the legality of gay marriage. Similar arguments were once made by people who truly believed in the mortal sin of a black man marrying a white woman. So in the spirit of the Bible, one might counsel Ron Brown to walk a mile in his brother's shoes. Link to comment
StPaulHusker Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Does it make me a bad Husker fan if I have absolutely no idea who the hell this player is? Did he ever play? Link to comment
Count 'Bility Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Does it make me a bad Husker fan if I have absolutely no idea who the hell this player is? Did he ever play? I dont recall him either. The only kickers under Callahan I recall are Dyches, DeAngelis, Congdon, Henery, and Kunalic. Link to comment
StPaulHusker Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Does it make me a bad Husker fan if I have absolutely no idea who the hell this player is? Did he ever play? I dont recall him either. The only kickers under Callahan I recall are Dyches, DeAngelis, Congdon, Henery, and Kunalic. Well I just read the story from the link. He redshirted in 04 and then had a career ending injury in 05. So there you have it. Link to comment
74Hunter Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Fair enough. I guess I'm making the same 'inferences' that you are. I know that you think you are making a grand point here, but you really aren't. No, not any more grand than anything you've said, but thank you for giving more importance tto my statements than I intended. 1 Link to comment
74Hunter Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Intellectually dishonest indeed. You cannot read the statement, "You put your arms around that person struggling with homosexuality and you help walk him or her to the truth of Jesus Christ, just as you would any other player involved in any other sin" and not see that Junior's interpretation is wholly accurate. This is exactly what Coach Brown meant. This "intellectually dishonest" thing is silly. Point the thumb with that. When every Christian church makes it their mission to 'cure' homosexuals, I'll buy that sentiment. But I know for a fact that not all churches do that. But we know for a fact that we are talking about Ron Brown, and that Ron Brown made his statements for public consumption, that Ron Brown believes homosexuality is a sin, and that it's something a player would "struggle with." And with all due respect to "hate the sin, love the sinner" it's pretty hard not to extraplote that a player who didn't choose to "correct" the sin of homosexuality (as opposed to say, robbing a liquor store) would be regarded by Brown as a weaker person in danger of spending an eternity in hell. He's not equating a sinning homosexual with a sinning heterosexual. He's saying a homosexual has sinned right out of the gate, before he's made the bad choices of his fellow sinners. All of which is Ron Brown's right as an individual. But others have every right to criticize him. As you suggest, a lot of Christian churches wouldn't approve of Ron Brown's judgement, either. I'm guessing the truth is that Ron Brown is a deeply spiritual man with a genuine respect for his players and their future well-being. I bet the vast majority of his players love and respect him, even if they don't always agree with him. But I'm guessing Ron Brown is capable of evolving, too, and like a lot of other athletes with deeply Christian upbringings, he will be putting the supposed "issue" of homosexuality in the rearview mirror. Your first paragraph is mostly your opinion. From my experience, some gay people do struggle with their sexuality. Maybe he means that a gay person who is struggling should find help in a Christian counselor so that he could find inner peace? We just don't know. Until he mentions 'curing'' gays, I'm not going to put those words in his mouth. I agree with the rest of your post, however. Link to comment
Landlord Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 There's also the pretty important distinction as to whether he is referencing homosexual orientation, which can't generally be "fixed" or changed, or if he is referencing homosexual lifestyle and engagement. Nobody is really caring as to which one, they're just reading into it whichever they guess. Link to comment
Guy Chamberlin Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 There's also the pretty important distinction as to whether he is referencing homosexual orientation, which can't generally be "fixed" or changed, or if he is referencing homosexual lifestyle and engagement. Nobody is really caring as to which one, they're just reading into it whichever they guess. Can't keep flogging this horse forever, but that's not really a distinction. Unless you think "heterosexual orientation" and "heterosexual lifestyle" are interchangeable here. I don't think some of us here are reading into it or guessing at all. Ron Brown spoke his mind honestly and his words were pretty clear. We're just taking our opinions from there. Link to comment
Landlord Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Can't keep flogging this horse forever, but that's not really a distinction. Unless you think "heterosexual orientation" and "heterosexual lifestyle" are interchangeable here. It's a humongous distinction, and yes, it works the same way for heterosexuals. Link to comment
Guy Chamberlin Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Let's take this in another direction: Love the Sinner, Mock the Hairdo Link to comment
Count 'Bility Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Let's take this in another direction: Love the Sinner, Mock the Hairdo Holy sh#t. That's first pic I've seen. I had no idea. Guy's a full-blown light bulb head. Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Come on, can you imagine feeling comfortable around Ron Brown if you were gay? After he said this: "I think Christians should love a homosexual teammate just like they would any other teammate," Brown said. "Let me tell you what else is in that locker room. There are thieves, liars, people who lust, people addicted to pornography, even some players who are alcoholics. There are all kinds of sinners in that locker room."Then: "You put your arms around that person struggling with homosexuality and you help walk him or her to the truth of Jesus Christ, just as you would any other player involved in any other sin." Sure... love the sinner, but try to change them. Seems so... welcoming. Seems you chose to gloss over and ignore the direct statement Ron made (that I bolded) Yeah, it's the second half of the statement, the part you want to ignore, where things get a little tricky. Keeping in mind that Ron Brown made most of these statements while giving public testimony opposing the legality of gay marriage. Similar arguments were once made by people who truly believed in the mortal sin of a black man marrying a white woman. So in the spirit of the Bible, one might counsel Ron Brown to walk a mile in his brother's shoes. Actually I am not and do not ignore the second half at all. I have absolutely no problem with it whatsoever. He believes it is a sin and basically stated it is no different than other sins that may be prevalent in the locker room. Basically, in Ron's view, it is no different than any other sin you or I may engage in. That seems to be a pretty fair position to hold on sin IMO. It only bothers some people because they may not want to accept that others view it as sin. There is a difference, rather substantial in some cases, between what is societally acceptable and what a religion, a person, or God himself may view as sinful behavior. The thing I do know is that neither Ron nor you or I are God. We can have our ideas about what is or isn't sin but we are not where the buck stops. I am plenty satisfied to leave those determinations up to God and not worry too much what particular views some people may have about them. That is why I'm not running around talking about it being a sin or about any need to try to steer them in a different direction. But, I also have no problem with Ron saying what he believes. If he had a record that spoke differently about his character, I may feel differently about what he says. He doesn't so I don't. Link to comment
zoogs Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 What I don't understand is how Ron Brown thinks he can enjoy his holy matrimony but for a gay person to do the same would be to sin. Unless he thinks everyone sins when they husk the corn cob. Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 This is what's so amazingly comical about the Christian approach here - so many Christians want to tell this guy that being gay is fine, he just shouldn't act on it. TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE. Feel free to think what you think, but don't act on that thought by telling anyone about it. You have no right to tell this dude how you feel about him being gay. Shut your yap, keep your opinion to yourself, and everyone's better off. You make nothing better by telling this guy you disagree with his life, and you have no position of superiority to judge him. 4 Link to comment
sd'sker Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 i do not think anyone has really criticized ron brown here, or even his views. i think the point is, and i will just speak for myself to make it easier, if i was a gay player and a coach had both lobbied for state enforced discrimination against me and immediately viewed me, a homosexual who is going to act as a homosexual (because that is what i am), as living a struggle and needing his guidance to persevere, i would be uncomfortable. and that was the point of the conversation, or at least i thought. 3 Link to comment
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