Reported Sexual Assault at Armstrong's House Under Investigation

[Glendower]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not stating if I think anyone is guilty or not. I do have one question that if I heard it right I am not sure I understand.

 

The female mentioned that the rape happened between the hours of 2:30 sunday morning to 9:30 am. Why could she not narrow a time better down better than 7 hours?

 

If I misheard, please correct me.

It could have happened while she was asleep, then she woke up and figured out what happened. Or since they were at a party alcohol may have been involved.

I never buy that as an excuse. If you choose to drink then you need to understand that the things you do while under the influence may or may not be agreeable to you when you sober up, but it was YOUR decision to drink so you get to live with the consequences of your actions. (When I use the word you in this post, I don't necessarily mean you Moiraine.)

Elf, just no. Maybe the way she was dressed, "she was just asking for it" too? No.

If she says yes while drunk, or even because she was drunk, when she sobers up it doesn't become rape. And no I was not implying that by drinking that she was "asking for it".

 

*Edit* I've heard some information within the last 12 hours that leads me to believe this. That's all I'm saying.

You said "it was YOUR decision to drink so you get to live with the consequences of your actions". This is disgusting to hear, and honestly, if that is how you feel, I am ashamed for you.

 

You are now saying that agreeing to sex while drunk gives the women no legal rights. However, consent cannot be given by someone who is mentally incapable or physically helpless, including as a result of alcohol. You want consequences for actions, well don't sleep with someone who is drunk; otherwise, you can live with the consequences when they sober up.

Living with the consequences of our decisions to drink alcohol goes far beyond a choice to partake of sexual activities. We could list example after example of bad choices that are made while under the influence of alcohol and in the vast majority of cases we still hold those people accountable for their actions.

 

I think it goes without saying that someone who is mentally incapable or physically helpless cannot give consent. These would be obvious exceptions to the above.

 

Oh, in regards to your last sentence, what happens when they are both drunk and make bad decisions, what then?

Simple, then both have legal rights. Of course, the woman may file for rape (which requires penetration) while the man may file for sexual assault.

 

Consequences for actions. You keep saying that, but clearly, you have a double standard in this situation, for whatever reason.

Where is my double standard?

"Living with the consequences of our decisions to drink alcohol". If you think they both drank, great. Both will live with the consequences of their actions following that choice. If you agree, what are we talking about?

That bolded part? That's a general statement that applies to everyone. Alcohol is a drug that affects our decision making process. If you drink enough, sooner or later you are going to make decisions you regret the next day. How do I know that? Been there, done that, not proud of it. I can't begin to count the number of people I've seen in those same shoes.

 

If YOU agree, then what are we talking about? Remember, you challenged me in this thread, not the other way around. And for the record, I think its far more likely that everyone was drinking than one person taking advantage of a drunk girl.

Okay. Let's make this really simple. It is clear you think the woman involved needs to accept the consequences of her choice to drink at a party, which apparently is rape in your definition. Now, what is not clear is whether you think the man involved needs to accept the consequences of having sex with an inebriated individual who reports said event as a crime. If you agree to the first part but not the second part, there is your double standard.

Come on man, quit pulling stuff out of your anal orifice. And while you're at it, quit putting words in my mouth.

Come on man, answer the question. If this was not what you meant, then you have been very unclear.

 

You have been making assumptions. If and when you want to stop doing that and have an honest discussion, then I'm game. Until then, go pound sand.

 

Way to evade! It's his fault that you can't clarify your position because he explained how what you said can be easily interpreted.

[KazLong]

If you are too drunk to consent it is rape.

 

If a woman is passed out and a drunk man has sex with her that is rape.

 

Even if the guy is black out drunk still rape.

 

Absent a showing it was consensual the problem most defendants run into is they will go with the whole I was so black out drunk I don't remember what happened!

 

Then police are just stuck with the victims statement that they where sexually assaulted did not consent. Being passed out drunk or sleep walking or etc are not defenses to sexual assault.

 

Blaming the victim is ludicrous and only really seen in these types of heinous crimes. Would a similar argument be valid if a home invasion happened and you and your family is tied up and robbed at gun point?

 

Don't want a home invasion don't have so much money!

 

If you think the fact the man is also intoxicated makes him less culpable then take these sets of facts, a man gets drunk black out drunk, drives kills a family in a mini van. Is he not responsible?

 

The fact is in our society you should be safe to pass out without being victimized by offenders.

 

There is case law on this point.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17359682305888977320&q=state+v.+koperski+no.+s-95-813&hl=en&as_sdt=6,28

 

Basically guy at a lincoln party rapes a girl on a couch that is passed out she kisses him back at start according to her, she wakes up someone kissing her he wants more tells him to stop he continues to sexually assault her. He claims I was pass out drunk and or sleep walking. He was convicted conviction confirmed.

 

Not looking to argue.

 

It is the law don't like it?

 

Move.

[NUance]

If you are too drunk to consent it is rape.

 

I'll bet this is an issue every weekend at every college in America. Drunk girl sleeps with drunk guy. Hungover girl regrets her decision in the morning. In 99.9% of the cases she simply makes the walk of shame back to her dorm room. But 0.1% of the time she blames the guy and accuses him of rape. Was it rape? I dunno. Maybe yes, maybe no. It would depend on the facts. It would be a tough call if she was drunk and seemingly gave consent, but then later it turned out she was too drunk to remember what happened. (Was she too drunk to give consent?)

 

I'm not saying this is what happened. But I suspect this scene plays out quite often on every college campus in the land.

[KazLong]

 

If you are too drunk to consent it is rape.

 

I'll bet this is an issue every weekend at every college in America. Drunk girl sleeps with drunk guy. Hung over girl regrets her decision in the morning. In 99.9% of the cases she simply makes the walk of shame back to her dorm room. But 0.1% of the time she blames the guy and accuses him of rape. Was it rape? I dunno. Maybe yes, maybe no. It would depend on the facts. It would be a tough call if she was drunk and seemingly gave consent, but then later it turned out she was too drunk to remember what happened. (Was she too drunk to give consent?)

 

I'm not saying this is what happened. But I suspect this scene plays out quite often on every college campus in the land.

 

It does.

 

The vast majority of them are never charged. It requires the guy to say something really stupid. Like I don't know what happened or I was black out myself or sleep walking. If the accuser then says she remembers refusing you are DOA.

 

Rape kits are always done. However those are very misleading, as normal intercourse always leads to some vaginal tearing according to the Scandinavian sexual research institute.

 

Rape kits are only really useful when the offender is unknown or a denial that the sex happened.

 

Usually most paper thin sexual assaults just lead to a good once over questioning of the alleged perp and filed under not enough to charge.

 

Absent bruising significant tearing etc.

 

However I have worked in Iowa City in this area and yes, this happens numerous times every weekend.

 

The vast majority like 99.9% are never reported and not an actual offense. Boyfriend girlfriend two people out on a date, usually never reported or charged.

 

Where you see this reported is some guy finding a woman passed out at a party usually a total stranger or someone who has tried to get with them prior that they have turned down.

 

Edit: Read some of Elfs comments <face-palm> liked Moirannes response and others. False rape allegations generally do not happen and if they do they usually dissolve quickly claiming rape is still taboo in our society and the victims are put through a lot of scrutiny and embarrassment.

[Elf]

 

Come on man, quit pulling stuff out of your anal orifice. And while you're at it, quit putting words in my mouth.

No kidding! That's how you spread cholera!

 

Right?

[Thanks_Tom RR]

 

 

You have been making assumptions. If and when you want to stop doing that and have an honest discussion, then I'm game. Until then, go pound sand.

Way to evade! It's his fault that you can't clarify your position because he explained how what you said can be easily interpreted.

Thank you, Glendower. He has gone from discussing to evading. Whatever.

[Elf]

Glendower isn't right. I'm not evading I'm just not going to put up with your bs assumptions about my position.

 

At no point have I ever said the things you are assuming I did.

[knapplc]

Glendower isn't right. I'm not evading I'm just not going to put up with your bs assumptions about my position.

 

At no point have I ever said the things you are assuming I did.

I've missed it, and I'm not reading through that mess of quotes up there. What's your opinion, if you don't mind me asking?

[cornographic]

Hello Husker Nacione, back again. So what's the latest on this allegation...anybody?

[HuskerNBigD]

After reading the last few pages of this thread, I'm starting to think elfkiller was on to something.

[Elf]

 

Glendower isn't right. I'm not evading I'm just not going to put up with your bs assumptions about my position.

 

At no point have I ever said the things you are assuming I did.

I've missed it, and I'm not reading through that mess of quotes up there. What's your opinion, if you don't mind me asking?

 

First of all, my position on this particular case is based off information I received from someone I have known for 10+ years and has never given me reason to question his integrity. This individual has contacts inside the LPD. (This is not new to me, I've known about his LPD connections almost from day one.) This information could be wrong, but I have no reason to believe that so far. If it is wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. If you want to talk about what I heard we can go to rumorville or take it to PMs. (I mentioned this earlier in the thread as well.)

 

My position in general concerning parties and consensual conduct:

 

If you go to a party and drink, that is your decision and you live with the consequences of not only that decision, but the poor decisions you make while under the influence. Does that mean someone has the right to rape you? Do I really need to answer that? Apparently so because some people can't seem to figure it out on there own. The answer to that is, of course not and nothing I have ever said has even come close to implying that is acceptable.

 

I'm a firm believer in accepting personal responsibility for our actions and decisions and I never accept alcohol as an excuse for poor behavior or poor choices. Poor behavior and poor choices are not limited to one sex or the other and I shouldn't have to point that out.

 

NUance touched on how often these situations happen on campuses all across America, and probably the world. People start partying and in many cases they make decisions they regret later. Most of the time everyone moves on with their lives, but sometimes a false accusation happens and other times rapes occur.

 

Just to be clear, if someone did rape this woman, make sure he ends up in gen pop, they love rapists there.

[Elf]

After reading the last few pages of this thread, I'm starting to think elfkiller was on to something.

If "Elfkiller" wants to put his money where his mouth is, he can PM me for my address.

[I AM FOOT FOOT]

Hello Husker Nacione, back again. So what's the latest on this allegation...anybody?

no one on here knows anything .the rest is all WAG.

[junior4949]

 

 

If you are too drunk to consent it is rape.

 

I'll bet this is an issue every weekend at every college in America. Drunk girl sleeps with drunk guy. Hung over girl regrets her decision in the morning. In 99.9% of the cases she simply makes the walk of shame back to her dorm room. But 0.1% of the time she blames the guy and accuses him of rape. Was it rape? I dunno. Maybe yes, maybe no. It would depend on the facts. It would be a tough call if she was drunk and seemingly gave consent, but then later it turned out she was too drunk to remember what happened. (Was she too drunk to give consent?)

 

I'm not saying this is what happened. But I suspect this scene plays out quite often on every college campus in the land.

 

It does.

 

The vast majority of them are never charged. It requires the guy to say something really stupid. Like I don't know what happened or I was black out myself or sleep walking. If the accuser then says she remembers refusing you are DOA.

 

Rape kits are always done. However those are very misleading, as normal intercourse always leads to some vaginal tearing according to the Scandinavian sexual research institute.

 

Rape kits are only really useful when the offender is unknown or a denial that the sex happened.

 

Usually most paper thin sexual assaults just lead to a good once over questioning of the alleged perp and filed under not enough to charge.

 

Absent bruising significant tearing etc.

 

However I have worked in Iowa City in this area and yes, this happens numerous times every weekend.

 

The vast majority like 99.9% are never reported and not an actual offense. Boyfriend girlfriend two people out on a date, usually never reported or charged.

 

Where you see this reported is some guy finding a woman passed out at a party usually a total stranger or someone who has tried to get with them prior that they have turned down.

 

Edit: Read some of Elfs comments <face-palm> liked Moirannes response and others. False rape allegations generally do not happen and if they do they usually dissolve quickly claiming rape is still taboo in our society and the victims are put through a lot of scrutiny and embarrassment.

 

 

They do seem to happen more frequently when a sports star is involved. Anyone remember the 03' season when KState was playing in a BCS Bowl? A woman claimed to be sexually assaulted by El Roberson only to get him suspended from half the game. Then, as soon as the game was over she dropped the charges. Or, how about the Eagle, CO deal involving Kobe Bryant where the one claiming rape had three different semen specimens found in her underwear.

 

We've got a pretty big game coming up. I'm not implying anything here, but high profile players do tend to make great targets.

[NUance]

 

After reading the last few pages of this thread, I'm starting to think elfkiller was on to something.

If "Elfkiller" wants to put his money where his mouth is, he can PM me for my address.

 

 

I'm afraid elfkiller is no longer with us. He was done in by the elfkiller killer. LINK