Target, Bathrooms, & a PC culture

[JJ Husker]

 

 

I think Obama's thing is overreaching and dangerous, but assigning it the label "PC" is a misnomer.

 

I'm not too concerned if PC is the correct name for stuff like this but the first part of this sentence piqued my interest. If a policy like this is good and acceptable for the general public, how does it become overreaching and dangerous in our schools? Surely it's either good or bad for all restroom and locker room locations? Please explain why it was good enough for a Target restroom but a dangerous thing in a high school restroom or locker room.

 

 

Why is there a drinking age? Age of consent?

Is there an age limit or age requirement to use restrooms at Target or in schools? I'm 53 and have used the facilities in both places numerous times, as has my daughter who is 16. Any age can use either facility. I'm not following the logic on age being an issue. However, I will agree that it is a more dangerous and idiotic proposition in our schools than it is at a place like Target.

[Landlord]

I'm not following the logic on age being an issue. However, I will agree that it is a more dangerous and idiotic proposition in our schools than it is at a place like Target.

 

 

I don't think these two sentences honestly match up, and it seems like you're trying to catch me in some kind of inconsistency or "gotcha" moment. It makes sense to me why it's not the same thing, and it seems to make sense to you as well.

[teachercd]

You honestly have to be trying to not see how this is a bad idea in schools to see it as not being a bad idea. Kids ar f'ing cruel and I could not even imagine how bad of an idea this would be.

 

Most schools have boys and girls restrooms and usually a unisex one...the "problem" has been solved years ago.

[JJ Husker]

 

I'm not following the logic on age being an issue. However, I will agree that it is a more dangerous and idiotic proposition in our schools than it is at a place like Target.

 

I don't think these two sentences honestly match up, and it seems like you're trying to catch me in some kind of inconsistency or "gotcha" moment. It makes sense to me why it's not the same thing, and it seems to make sense to you as well.

The only "gotcha" to it is in previous posts you were not concerned in the least about any possible additional dangers of the Target issue but, when schools were mentioned, you logically called it "overreaching and dangerous". I have merely said it was "more" of a problem in schools and showed that the exact same people would be free to use facilities in both locations. So, I guess I'll ask the question; Do you feel it is or isn't dangerous and I'll advised in Target stores as well as schools?

 

It really isn't meant as a "gotcha" so much as it is intended to figure out why you seem to be applying a dual standard to the same issue. We both know hormone laden teen boys will abuse it in schools. As far as "danger" of actual sexual assaults etc., I'm not sure there is any difference between the 2 locations. I do know my daughter sure was a lot more concerned about what it means for schools than she was about Target. Age being the issue is just a copout. BTW, her school would seem to have a way above average number of trans, gays, and generally "odd" kids and parents. This WILL affect her, if for no other reason, I am sure she will never use the facilities at her school because of it. Is that how we address things in this country now? Put out the 99% for the 1%. Doesn't seem right to me.

 

It seems that you are recognizing an inconsistency in your positions. So yeah, I'm a little curious if you'll squirm like those college students in the 2 videos or if you'll acknowledge that maybe it isn't the best of an idea anywhere.

[ScottyIce]

So... I'm a male but feel like a female. Do I join the girl scouts or boy scouts?

 

Seriously, what is next? I don't understand what is going on anymore.

[JJ Husker]

So... I'm a male but feel like a female. Do I join the girl scouts or boy scouts?

 

Seriously, what is next? I don't understand what is going on anymore.

Whatever YOU'RE comfortable with would seem to be the answer du jour. It sure doesn't matter what society as a whole is comfortable with anymore.

 

Oh, and welcome to the club.

[ScottyIce]

 

So... I'm a male but feel like a female. Do I join the girl scouts or boy scouts?

 

Seriously, what is next? I don't understand what is going on anymore.

Whatever YOU'RE comfortable with would seem to be the answer du jour. It sure doesn't matter what society as a whole is comfortable with anymore.

 

Oh, and welcome to the club.

 

 

So...

 

A) I'm going to go on little trips with a bunch of boys and I'm a girl

B) I'm a little girl, going camping with a bunch of boys.

 

Yeah, those don't sound like good options at all.

[zoogs]

Coming out as transgender in high school is a move with such low social costs that we expect boys will take on a fake identity just to get a legally defensible peep at girls who don't welcome it?

 

What kind of monsters do we take ourselves for?

[Scratchtown]

Coming out as transgender in high school is a move with such low social costs that we expect boys will take on a fake identity just to get a legally defensible peep at girls who don't welcome it?

 

What kind of monsters do we take ourselves for?

Sexual assault happens. It's ignorant to excuse it with a statement like that. Mental instability is a problem.....as has been shown in shootings. But no one wants to talk about that.

 

Zoogs your question directly reflects those students answers.

[zoogs]

Did I excuse it?...

 

What I'm challenging is this idea that we *must* force transgender students to go against their identity because if we don't, non transgender sexual assaulters will voluntarily fake change their own identities to get away with sexual assault. Or not get away, rather, because that would still be illegal.

 

If we're talking about a criminal like that, they will continue to do criminal things like sneak in, peep, assault, rape, etc, as they are today. Because pretending to live as a gender you're not is not something anyone wants to do.

[teachercd]

Did I excuse it?...

 

What I'm challenging is this idea that we *must* force transgender students to go against their identity because if we don't, non transgender sexual assaulters will voluntarily fake change their own identities to get away with sexual assault. Or not get away, rather, because that would still be illegal.

 

If we're talking about a criminal like that, they will continue to do criminal things like sneak in, peep, assault, rape, etc, as they are today. Because pretending to live as a gender you're not is not something anyone wants to do.

 

Boys

Girls

Unisex

 

That is all you need...most schools have them...the problem isn't actually a problem.

 

Now, I get your point but you must not be around 500-2500 kids everyday...if you think for a second that there would not be a few morons that sneak in and try to be the class-clown and then claim "What, maybe I am transgender" you are fooling yourself.

 

Things I have heard: "She asked my to smack her ass"..."She told me to pull up her skirt"..."She said I could touch her boob"..."I didn't know it was the girls restroom"..."It was just a picture"...

 

The list goes on and on and on...It is interesting because kids are stupid but they are really smart at being stupid...

 

If this does go through...people are putting teachers and coaches in an even more difficult position than they are in now.

[TonyStalloni]

 

Did I excuse it?...

 

What I'm challenging is this idea that we *must* force transgender students to go against their identity because if we don't, non transgender sexual assaulters will voluntarily fake change their own identities to get away with sexual assault. Or not get away, rather, because that would still be illegal.

 

If we're talking about a criminal like that, they will continue to do criminal things like sneak in, peep, assault, rape, etc, as they are today. Because pretending to live as a gender you're not is not something anyone wants to do.

 

Boys

Girls

Unisex

 

That is all you need...most schools have them...the problem isn't actually a problem.

 

Now, I get your point but you must not be around 500-2500 kids everyday...if you think for a second that there would not be a few morons that sneak in and try to be the class-clown and then claim "What, maybe I am transgender" you are fooling yourself.

 

Things I have heard: "She asked my to smack her ass"..."She told me to pull up her skirt"..."She said I could touch her boob"..."I didn't know it was the girls restroom"..."It was just a picture"...

 

The list goes on and on and on...It is interesting because kids are stupid but they are really smart at being stupid...

 

If this does go through...people are putting teachers and coaches in an even more difficult position than they are in now.

 

That may be the reason for the change with this administration. Make sure admins, teachers and coaches with desire to succeed and be positive are further frustrated with an already difficult job. Make it so negative that they quit and we are left with the few who neither care nor will challenge anything.

[Lil' Red]

 

Did I excuse it?...

 

What I'm challenging is this idea that we *must* force transgender students to go against their identity because if we don't, non transgender sexual assaulters will voluntarily fake change their own identities to get away with sexual assault. Or not get away, rather, because that would still be illegal.

 

If we're talking about a criminal like that, they will continue to do criminal things like sneak in, peep, assault, rape, etc, as they are today. Because pretending to live as a gender you're not is not something anyone wants to do.

 

Boys

Girls

Unisex

 

That is all you need...most schools have them...the problem isn't actually a problem.

 

Now, I get your point but you must not be around 500-2500 kids everyday...if you think for a second that there would not be a few morons that sneak in and try to be the class-clown and then claim "What, maybe I am transgender" you are fooling yourself.

 

Things I have heard: "She asked my to smack her ass"..."She told me to pull up her skirt"..."She said I could touch her boob"..."I didn't know it was the girls restroom"..."It was just a picture"...

 

The list goes on and on and on...It is interesting because kids are stupid but they are really smart at being stupid...

 

If this does go through...people are putting teachers and coaches in an even more difficult position than they are in now.

 

The "What, maybe I am transgender" defense wouldn't be valid under this new directive as a letter from a parent or guardian is required. It's not something that can be used as a onetime excuse. I agree that having a unisex bathroom is a good way of handling the problem though.

[Atbone95]

I'll be point blank with you. I'm a college aged male not too far removed from high school. This is how kids that age think.

 

The problem they're talking about isn't "faking" to be transgender. No, that's asinine. No one is going to fake being a girl. A boy is going to walk in to the girls locker room before PE class. He knows he's a boy. His friends know he's a boy. The girls know he identifies as a boy. But, the second anyone questions him, he simply responds, "Are you serious? Are you discriminating against me right now? I never thought I'd face bigots at this school." His indignation in check, he'll walk back to his buddies and tell them who has the nicest butt.

 

Yes, this was probably an exaggeration. But I'd say it's more likely this happens than nothing happens at all. It's a Pandora's Box that our society doesn't need to open.

 

"It requires a parent or guardian letter" - LOL, no offense, but I faked probably close to 20 of those in four years at high school. It's not worth bugging my parents asking for it. Now, I came from a pretty good family; if I would have faked that and the school called and asked, I'd have my ass beat. You're telling me that there aren't parents out there that wouldn't laugh it off too? Say it's fine? Just not care at all?

[JJ Husker]

Did I excuse it?...

 

What I'm challenging is this idea that we *must* force transgender students to go against their identity because if we don't, non transgender sexual assaulters will voluntarily fake change their own identities to get away with sexual assault. Or not get away, rather, because that would still be illegal.

 

If we're talking about a criminal like that, they will continue to do criminal things like sneak in, peep, assault, rape, etc, as they are today. Because pretending to live as a gender you're not is not something anyone wants to do.

Zoogs-

You're not addressing the real issues. You are pretending the problem is forcing trans to use facilities they may feel uncomfortable in. This helps direct the issue away from the real problems of A) middle school and teenage boys abusing the ability to gain access to girls restrrooms and locker rooms (which we both know will happen) and B) sexual perverts and peepers abusing the now easier ability to gain access to women's facilities.

 

Yes, sexual assaults etc. are a crime now and they still would be. Non-issue. The problem is opportunity. Now people who are so inclined will not be out of place in the opposite sex restrooms. Officials hands will be somewhat tied as to dealing with any complaints that may arise before a serious problem occurs. Joe Pervert can simply claim he is transgender and claim harassment if his actions or motives are questioned in the least. Jimmy Schoolboy can claim he is transgender or that he just didn't fully understand the new rules. Not to mention that it will make the vast majority of women (based on those I've talked to that could be all women) uncomfortable and cause them to alter what is "comfortable" for them.

 

There are likely some people that are concerned about what actual trans people may do with this but I'm not one of them. I figure if a transgender male (male biologically but female by identity choice) is really concerned about which toilet facilities they use, there is a very high probability that they are also dressing and acting like a woman. So go ahead and use the ladies room. Same for the opposite situation. I can't see where anyone would harass them or raise a stink with the unwritten rules that have historically been in place. However, if a man, who looks, dresses and acts like a man wants to claim he is actually trans and wants to use the women's room, I don't think it's out of line for society to expect him to commit more to his chosen identity before an open invitation is issued for him to do whatever makes him comfortable. Basically, my position is leave it alone and it probably works out for the best with very low incidence of problems. Don't ban trans from certain restrooms and don't invite everyone to do as they please. Let it remain out of place for a man (with an outwardly manly appearance) or a woman (with an outwardly female appearance) to be in the wrong restroom. Really, how put out could they be if they won't even commit to the outward appearance identity. I would truly wonder about a man who says he feels more comfortable in the ladies room but we're also supposed to believe it is just too uncomfortable for him to act/look like a woman.

 

Could there still be a few problems or issues? Sure, there always will be, but the number would pale in comparison to what is currently being proposed. I sure wouldn't say a word to someone I thought to really be female but who looked and acted like a man. I really do not see the need to throw the baby out with the bath water, or maybe better...... throwing common sense out the window.