Target, Bathrooms, & a PC culture

[C N Red]

Seriously people.

 

At what point, at Memorial Stadium, does a large segment of women decide to spontaneously and temporarily re-designate themselves as male to take advantage of shorter bathroom lines? Those women's restroom lines are a mess! The men's line moves much faster.

 

There may be only thing protecting us now. Thank god for urinals. But do we lose those at some point too!?!?

You mustnt be in the North Stadium then. The mens is worse than the womens.

[funhusker]

 

I never want to be in a position where I tell people how they should live there lives, as long as they are being good citizens. That said, I think on a basic level this policy is meant to help a small, very small group of poeple.

 

If a 5'8" cute blonde female with perky breasts and short shorts walks into the womens room no one thinks twice, even though she may have a penis. However, her friend, who has a vagina, but is 6'1", deep voice, broadly built and slight facial hair is kept out of the same restroom because she "might" be a man is rediculous.

 

We are at a point where we just need to rely on common sense and hope our laws against peeping, assault, and other crimes are adequate. Didn't Einstein say something about human technology surpassing human understanding? Maybe he's right..

f#*k...Mo is about to LOSE IT ON YOU

 

Why?

 

Because I think it is rediculous that "non-stereotyped" women should be questioned before peeing?

 

I'll take my chances, thanks for the heads up.

[NM11046]

 

 

 

 

Is anyone going to address the trans species issue? I know why it is being avoided but I want someone who supports this lunacy to explain to me how it is really any different. How many years before Target installs litter boxes in the facilities for their customer's identity comfort?

You're ridiculous.

That very well might be (at least the litter box comment) but I very seriously would like it explained to me how gender identity issues are significantly different than species identity issues. Truly and seriously, I'm not trolling this subject. You've called one ridiculous and you think the other needs special accommodations made for it. I personally don't think a person with species confusion thinks they are ridiculous. It is a very real thing, I actually knew a girl my daughter attended elementary school with who thought and claimed and at times acted like she was a fox (no, not the hot babe type of fox). It was awkward for the other kids and caused her to be somewhat of an outcast, subjected to ridicule, etc. A very real situation. On the otherhand, I do not know personally one transgender or person with a gender identity issue.

 

So I really do want to know what is the difference between accommodating for this girls identity issues as opposed to someone with a gender identity issue?

 

If you think it is really that ridiculous, then simply don't reply.

 

I can't speak to species identity issues, as it's not something that I've heard about or am familiar with, my reaction was to the dramatic way you commented (which I think was your goal). If I had to wager I'm fairly sure that would fall into a mental diagnosis and I can imagine that to be a difficult situation for all involved. As far as accommodating, I'm sure that they didn't send this child outside to go to the bathroom or etc, but just like when any handicapped person (mental or physical) is in a school every effort is made to insure that that child is respected, given the resources they need and the teachers' difficult job is to make sure they are treated fairly - tough with school children I'm sure. The difference is that transgenderism is not a handicap. Just like being gay is not a handicap or being tall is not a handicap, or being from Iowa is not (or is it?) a handicap.

 

I think if you read some of the articles by parents of children who are transgendered or watch documentaries or meet families who are involved you'd be surprised to hear how easily kids adapt to each other, and that the bigger problem with acceptance comes with the parents. Kids are not born biased or prejudiced or afraid of someone who is different. A 5 year old tells the other kid at the table he's a boy and that's that. (I'd be happy to recommend some reading/viewing material if you're interested.)

 

I am not debating your philosophy on bathroom risk and etc. I think several days ago we agreed to disagree on that. Also I think (very rationally) you said a week or so ago and you mention here that exposure to different sorts of people is often a factor in ones opinion on issues such as this. I moved from Nebraska to the east coast more than 20 years ago, and I don't know that back then I would have been so open minded, or that I'd be spending time defending the normalcy of something that doesn't directly impact me in any way. But now I know, live and work with all sorts -the founder of my company is a transgender woman who transitioned very late in life, and I live near another transgender woman. I'm sure that the opportunity to get to know people, and to realize they're no different than me (or you) has allowed me to make a quicker move toward acceptance.

 

I'm a firm believe that history repeats itself, and I see many parallels between race relations in the 60's and the gay rights struggles of the 90's. I also see similarities between transgender issues of today and both of those (as well as prejudice against jews in WW2 but that's another thread) ... and we should be learning from our past. People are people. Everybody deserves to be comfortable in their own skin - and should be respected and treated fairly. It's frustrating to me that we're not adapting more quickly to treating folks as they deserve to be treated.

 

When it comes down to it people have made a mountain out of a mole hill with this issue (5 pages of debate here!). It's simply not something that is going to be a noticed problem - as you made mention above, transgendered women will use the women's room without issue regardless of how far they've gone surgically in their transition and it will be fine. People may notice if they don't wash their hands but they won't notice if they used to be a man.

 

Wow...wow...wow...wow...wow.

 

Your point?

[teachercd]

 

 

 

 

 

Is anyone going to address the trans species issue? I know why it is being avoided but I want someone who supports this lunacy to explain to me how it is really any different. How many years before Target installs litter boxes in the facilities for their customer's identity comfort?

You're ridiculous.

That very well might be (at least the litter box comment) but I very seriously would like it explained to me how gender identity issues are significantly different than species identity issues. Truly and seriously, I'm not trolling this subject. You've called one ridiculous and you think the other needs special accommodations made for it. I personally don't think a person with species confusion thinks they are ridiculous. It is a very real thing, I actually knew a girl my daughter attended elementary school with who thought and claimed and at times acted like she was a fox (no, not the hot babe type of fox). It was awkward for the other kids and caused her to be somewhat of an outcast, subjected to ridicule, etc. A very real situation. On the otherhand, I do not know personally one transgender or person with a gender identity issue.

 

So I really do want to know what is the difference between accommodating for this girls identity issues as opposed to someone with a gender identity issue?

 

If you think it is really that ridiculous, then simply don't reply.

 

I can't speak to species identity issues, as it's not something that I've heard about or am familiar with, my reaction was to the dramatic way you commented (which I think was your goal). If I had to wager I'm fairly sure that would fall into a mental diagnosis and I can imagine that to be a difficult situation for all involved. As far as accommodating, I'm sure that they didn't send this child outside to go to the bathroom or etc, but just like when any handicapped person (mental or physical) is in a school every effort is made to insure that that child is respected, given the resources they need and the teachers' difficult job is to make sure they are treated fairly - tough with school children I'm sure. The difference is that transgenderism is not a handicap. Just like being gay is not a handicap or being tall is not a handicap, or being from Iowa is not (or is it?) a handicap.

 

I think if you read some of the articles by parents of children who are transgendered or watch documentaries or meet families who are involved you'd be surprised to hear how easily kids adapt to each other, and that the bigger problem with acceptance comes with the parents. Kids are not born biased or prejudiced or afraid of someone who is different. A 5 year old tells the other kid at the table he's a boy and that's that. (I'd be happy to recommend some reading/viewing material if you're interested.)

 

I am not debating your philosophy on bathroom risk and etc. I think several days ago we agreed to disagree on that. Also I think (very rationally) you said a week or so ago and you mention here that exposure to different sorts of people is often a factor in ones opinion on issues such as this. I moved from Nebraska to the east coast more than 20 years ago, and I don't know that back then I would have been so open minded, or that I'd be spending time defending the normalcy of something that doesn't directly impact me in any way. But now I know, live and work with all sorts -the founder of my company is a transgender woman who transitioned very late in life, and I live near another transgender woman. I'm sure that the opportunity to get to know people, and to realize they're no different than me (or you) has allowed me to make a quicker move toward acceptance.

 

I'm a firm believe that history repeats itself, and I see many parallels between race relations in the 60's and the gay rights struggles of the 90's. I also see similarities between transgender issues of today and both of those (as well as prejudice against jews in WW2 but that's another thread) ... and we should be learning from our past. People are people. Everybody deserves to be comfortable in their own skin - and should be respected and treated fairly. It's frustrating to me that we're not adapting more quickly to treating folks as they deserve to be treated.

 

When it comes down to it people have made a mountain out of a mole hill with this issue (5 pages of debate here!). It's simply not something that is going to be a noticed problem - as you made mention above, transgendered women will use the women's room without issue regardless of how far they've gone surgically in their transition and it will be fine. People may notice if they don't wash their hands but they won't notice if they used to be a man.

 

Wow...wow...wow...wow...wow.

 

Your point?

 

How awesome your point is! You nailed it!

[teachercd]

 

 

I never want to be in a position where I tell people how they should live there lives, as long as they are being good citizens. That said, I think on a basic level this policy is meant to help a small, very small group of poeple.

 

If a 5'8" cute blonde female with perky breasts and short shorts walks into the womens room no one thinks twice, even though she may have a penis. However, her friend, who has a vagina, but is 6'1", deep voice, broadly built and slight facial hair is kept out of the same restroom because she "might" be a man is rediculous.

 

We are at a point where we just need to rely on common sense and hope our laws against peeping, assault, and other crimes are adequate. Didn't Einstein say something about human technology surpassing human understanding? Maybe he's right..

f#*k...Mo is about to LOSE IT ON YOU

 

Why?

 

Because I think it is rediculous that "non-stereotyped" women should be questioned before peeing?

 

I'll take my chances, thanks for the heads up.

 

I have no idea...but just wait!

[JJ Husker]

 

 

 

Is anyone going to address the trans species issue? I know why it is being avoided but I want someone who supports this lunacy to explain to me how it is really any different. How many years before Target installs litter boxes in the facilities for their customer's identity comfort?

 

You're ridiculous.

That very well might be (at least the litter box comment) but I very seriously would like it explained to me how gender identity issues are significantly different than species identity issues. Truly and seriously, I'm not trolling this subject. You've called one ridiculous and you think the other needs special accommodations made for it. I personally don't think a person with species confusion thinks they are ridiculous. It is a very real thing, I actually knew a girl my daughter attended elementary school with who thought and claimed and at times acted like she was a fox (no, not the hot babe type of fox). It was awkward for the other kids and caused her to be somewhat of an outcast, subjected to ridicule, etc. A very real situation. On the otherhand, I do not know personally one transgender or person with a gender identity issue.

So I really do want to know what is the difference between accommodating for this girls identity issues as opposed to someone with a gender identity issue?

If you think it is really that ridiculous, then simply don't reply.

I can't speak to species identity issues, as it's not something that I've heard about or am familiar with, my reaction was to the dramatic way you commented (which I think was your goal). If I had to wager I'm fairly sure that would fall into a mental diagnosis and I can imagine that to be a difficult situation for all involved. As far as accommodating, I'm sure that they didn't send this child outside to go to the bathroom or etc, but just like when any handicapped person (mental or physical) is in a school every effort is made to insure that that child is respected, given the resources they need and the teachers' difficult job is to make sure they are treated fairly - tough with school children I'm sure. The difference is that transgenderism is not a handicap. Just like being gay is not a handicap or being tall is not a handicap, or being from Iowa is not (or is it?) a handicap.

 

I think if you read some of the articles by parents of children who are transgendered or watch documentaries or meet families who are involved you'd be surprised to hear how easily kids adapt to each other, and that the bigger problem with acceptance comes with the parents. Kids are not born biased or prejudiced or afraid of someone who is different. A 5 year old tells the other kid at the table he's a boy and that's that. (I'd be happy to recommend some reading/viewing material if you're interested.)

 

I am not debating your philosophy on bathroom risk and etc. I think several days ago we agreed to disagree on that. Also I think (very rationally) you said a week or so ago and you mention here that exposure to different sorts of people is often a factor in ones opinion on issues such as this. I moved from Nebraska to the east coast more than 20 years ago, and I don't know that back then I would have been so open minded, or that I'd be spending time defending the normalcy of something that doesn't directly impact me in any way. But now I know, live and work with all sorts -the founder of my company is a transgender woman who transitioned very late in life, and I live near another transgender woman. I'm sure that the opportunity to get to know people, and to realize they're no different than me (or you) has allowed me to make a quicker move toward acceptance.

 

I'm a firm believe that history repeats itself, and I see many parallels between race relations in the 60's and the gay rights struggles of the 90's. I also see similarities between transgender issues of today and both of those (as well as prejudice against jews in WW2 but that's another thread) ... and we should be learning from our past. People are people. Everybody deserves to be comfortable in their own skin - and should be respected and treated fairly. It's frustrating to me that we're not adapting more quickly to treating folks as they deserve to be treated.

 

When it comes down to it people have made a mountain out of a mole hill with this issue (5 pages of debate here!). It's simply not something that is going to be a noticed problem - as you made mention above, transgendered women will use the women's room without issue regardless of how far they've gone surgically in their transition and it will be fine. People may notice if they don't wash their hands but they won't notice if they used to be a man.

Thank you for the well thought out response. I think we may be back to where we left off earlier. It is clear that I have not had some of the exposure that you or some others in this thread have. To be completely honest, I feel that there is something a little "off" with both TG or TS people. I sure don't want them to be made uncomfortable or to be discriminated against and I would never do that myself. It may be my lack of familiarity with TG persons or my lack of understanding of what really causes some to really feel so out of place in their own skin. I guess I really do view at as more of a treatable disease or brain inbalance type situation than anything else. That may offend some people or expose some lack of knowledge on my part. I'm sorry if anyone finds it offensive, that is not my intent.

 

I just can't get past the thought that these people are probably going to feel a little out of place no matter what society does to try a accomodate them. I really do think that most TG's who desire to use the opposite sex restrooms are for the most part the same ones who could do it today without anyone raising a stink. I may be completely wrong. I'm really having trouble wrapping my head around a TG person person that would not basically "look the part" feeling more comfortable in the room intended for those who look opposite of them. I'm sure they exist but believe that would be a very miniscule number of them. It sure isn't my job to dictate to anyone what does or doesn't make them most comfortable. But I also think, since some people are going to feel uncomfortable about it either way, that society should strive to make the largest number of people comfortable as possible, considering everyone is equally worthy of that. I guess that is why I default to the status quo and catering to the clear lopsided majority on an issue like this. It's not that I want any one group to feel put out but rather I feel it does the least amount of damage for the most possible. Maybe that's a bassackward way to approach it, IDK. And I do think much of the support for these types of "acceptance" issues is driven more by a popular trend (PC if you will) type of thinking than what I feel is a more logical, straightforward common sense approach. In a couple more years when my daughter is out of high school, I really won't have a dog in the fight and it likely won't seem like near as big of an issue to me personally. Anyway, that's how I feel about it, right or wrong. Thanks for remaining cordial.

[funhusker]

Solid response JJ, even though we may disagree on the "mental health" of TG people.

 

Your reponse kind of matches the way "I" interpret the President's policy. We are grown ups. We can tell if a person "belongs" in a restroom. If they pee, wash hands, and get out; have a great day. A person should be able to choose which restroom makes them more comfortable in regards to that. However, if a 16 year old boy claims to be a girl so he can position a video camera in the girl showers, well we got some laws against that and the Administration acknowledges that.

 

I'm sad because the President had to come out with a policy that should be common sense that is already being practiced.

[Atbone95]

Solid response JJ, even though we may disagree on the "mental health" of TG people.

 

Your reponse kind of matches the way "I" interpret the President's policy. We are grown ups. We can tell if a person "belongs" in a restroom. If they pee, wash hands, and get out; have a great day. A person should be able to choose which restroom makes them more comfortable in regards to that. However, if a 16 year old boy claims to be a girl so he can position a video camera in the girl showers, well we got some laws against that and the Administration acknowledges that.

 

I'm sad because the President had to come out with a policy that should be common sense that is already being practiced.

Ehhhh, I think you're going a complete 180 if you're trying to draw any parallels between your statement and JJ's.

 

[begin my own opinion]

Why should a person be able to choose which restroom makes them more comfortable if, in reality, their choice could make 51+% of everyone else uncomfortable? I get TG, I'll even slightly buy that they can't control being the way they are (reluctantly). At the end of the day, why in the hell are we catering to a population that is .2% of the United States? Why can't we stick to the status quo and tell the .2% (most of whom, like JJ said, probably aren't given a fuss the way it stands now) that unfortunately that is how it is?

 

Don't bring back the "we have laws for that kind of behavior" either, please. I know you're jumping in, but that was had a while ago. Yes, we have laws for that. Never before have we literally facilitated the opportunity for crimes like that to happen.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

 

Solid response JJ, even though we may disagree on the "mental health" of TG people.

 

Your reponse kind of matches the way "I" interpret the President's policy. We are grown ups. We can tell if a person "belongs" in a restroom. If they pee, wash hands, and get out; have a great day. A person should be able to choose which restroom makes them more comfortable in regards to that. However, if a 16 year old boy claims to be a girl so he can position a video camera in the girl showers, well we got some laws against that and the Administration acknowledges that.

 

I'm sad because the President had to come out with a policy that should be common sense that is already being practiced.

Ehhhh, I think you're going a complete 180 if you're trying to draw any parallels between your statement and JJ's.

 

[begin my own opinion]

Why should a person be able to choose which restroom makes them more comfortable if, in reality, their choice could make 51+% of everyone else uncomfortable? I get TG, I'll even slightly buy that they can't control being the way they are (reluctantly). At the end of the day, why in the hell are we catering to a population that is .2% of the United States? Why can't we stick to the status quo and tell the .2% (most of whom, like JJ said, probably aren't given a fuss the way it stands now) that unfortunately that is how it is?

 

Don't bring back the "we have laws for that kind of behavior" either, please. I know you're jumping in, but that was had a while ago. Yes, we have laws for that. Never before have we literally facilitated the opportunity for crimes like that to happen.

 

 

American Indians and Native Alaskans made up 0.7% of the US population as of the 2010 Census. I suppose we should stick with the status quo and tell that 0.7% of folks that the way they're being treated is just unfortunately how it is.

[Moiraine]

 

I never want to be in a position where I tell people how they should live there lives, as long as they are being good citizens. That said, I think on a basic level this policy is meant to help a small, very small group of poeple.

 

If a 5'8" cute blonde female with perky breasts and short shorts walks into the womens room no one thinks twice, even though she may have a penis. However, her friend, who has a vagina, but is 6'1", deep voice, broadly built and slight facial hair is kept out of the same restroom because she "might" be a man is rediculous.

 

We are at a point where we just need to rely on common sense and hope our laws against peeping, assault, and other crimes are adequate. Didn't Einstein say something about human technology surpassing human understanding? Maybe he's right..

f#*k...Mo is about to LOSE IT ON YOU

 

 

You've made multiple posts like this about me and I don't get it. As for this topic, I haven't even made up my own mind. I see nothing in his post even worth arguing against.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

 

 

 

Is anyone going to address the trans species issue? I know why it is being avoided but I want someone who supports this lunacy to explain to me how it is really any different. How many years before Target installs litter boxes in the facilities for their customer's identity comfort?

You're ridiculous.

That very well might be (at least the litter box comment) but I very seriously would like it explained to me how gender identity issues are significantly different than species identity issues. Truly and seriously, I'm not trolling this subject. You've called one ridiculous and you think the other needs special accommodations made for it. I personally don't think a person with species confusion thinks they are ridiculous. It is a very real thing, I actually knew a girl my daughter attended elementary school with who thought and claimed and at times acted like she was a fox (no, not the hot babe type of fox). It was awkward for the other kids and caused her to be somewhat of an outcast, subjected to ridicule, etc. A very real situation. On the otherhand, I do not know personally one transgender or person with a gender identity issue.

 

So I really do want to know what is the difference between accommodating for this girls identity issues as opposed to someone with a gender identity issue?

 

If you think it is really that ridiculous, then simply don't reply.

 

I can't speak to species identity issues, as it's not something that I've heard about or am familiar with, my reaction was to the dramatic way you commented (which I think was your goal). If I had to wager I'm fairly sure that would fall into a mental diagnosis and I can imagine that to be a difficult situation for all involved. As far as accommodating, I'm sure that they didn't send this child outside to go to the bathroom or etc, but just like when any handicapped person (mental or physical) is in a school every effort is made to insure that that child is respected, given the resources they need and the teachers' difficult job is to make sure they are treated fairly - tough with school children I'm sure. The difference is that transgenderism is not a handicap. Just like being gay is not a handicap or being tall is not a handicap, or being from Iowa is not (or is it?) a handicap.

 

I think if you read some of the articles by parents of children who are transgendered or watch documentaries or meet families who are involved you'd be surprised to hear how easily kids adapt to each other, and that the bigger problem with acceptance comes with the parents. Kids are not born biased or prejudiced or afraid of someone who is different. A 5 year old tells the other kid at the table he's a boy and that's that. (I'd be happy to recommend some reading/viewing material if you're interested.)

 

I am not debating your philosophy on bathroom risk and etc. I think several days ago we agreed to disagree on that. Also I think (very rationally) you said a week or so ago and you mention here that exposure to different sorts of people is often a factor in ones opinion on issues such as this. I moved from Nebraska to the east coast more than 20 years ago, and I don't know that back then I would have been so open minded, or that I'd be spending time defending the normalcy of something that doesn't directly impact me in any way. But now I know, live and work with all sorts -the founder of my company is a transgender woman who transitioned very late in life, and I live near another transgender woman. I'm sure that the opportunity to get to know people, and to realize they're no different than me (or you) has allowed me to make a quicker move toward acceptance.

 

I'm a firm believe that history repeats itself, and I see many parallels between race relations in the 60's and the gay rights struggles of the 90's. I also see similarities between transgender issues of today and both of those (as well as prejudice against jews in WW2 but that's another thread) ... and we should be learning from our past. People are people. Everybody deserves to be comfortable in their own skin - and should be respected and treated fairly. It's frustrating to me that we're not adapting more quickly to treating folks as they deserve to be treated.

 

When it comes down to it people have made a mountain out of a mole hill with this issue (5 pages of debate here!). It's simply not something that is going to be a noticed problem - as you made mention above, transgendered women will use the women's room without issue regardless of how far they've gone surgically in their transition and it will be fine. People may notice if they don't wash their hands but they won't notice if they used to be a man.

 

 

This is an incredible response and I can't +1 it enough. So many good points.

 

At the end of the day, everyone should have the right to be comfortable in their own skin, without violating the law. Being TG or TS is not violating the law.

[TonyStalloni]

Solid response JJ, even though we may disagree on the "mental health" of TG people.

 

Your reponse kind of matches the way "I" interpret the President's policy. We are grown ups. We can tell if a person "belongs" in a restroom. If they pee, wash hands, and get out; have a great day. A person should be able to choose which restroom makes them more comfortable in regards to that. However, if a 16 year old boy claims to be a girl so he can position a video camera in the girl showers, well we got some laws against that and the Administration acknowledges that.

 

I'm sad because the President had to come out with a policy that should be common sense that is already being practiced.

The reason I keep hearing that TG and TS need to use bathrooms of the gender they aren't is so they are more comfortable. Are they uncomfortable because of a modesty issue or because they fear being assaulted? If it is the former then you have protected the modesty of .2% of the population while making uncomfortable probably half or more of the total female population. If it is the later then "well we got some laws against that". I don't know how long it has been since you were in high school or been around high school boys but if you think some will not push the envelope to find a way to successfully spend time in the girls locker room and bathrooms and come away with pics/video, then your head is a long way up your keester.

[Moiraine]

 

Solid response JJ, even though we may disagree on the "mental health" of TG people.

 

Your reponse kind of matches the way "I" interpret the President's policy. We are grown ups. We can tell if a person "belongs" in a restroom. If they pee, wash hands, and get out; have a great day. A person should be able to choose which restroom makes them more comfortable in regards to that. However, if a 16 year old boy claims to be a girl so he can position a video camera in the girl showers, well we got some laws against that and the Administration acknowledges that.

 

I'm sad because the President had to come out with a policy that should be common sense that is already being practiced.

The reason I keep hearing that TG and TS need to use bathrooms of the gender they aren't is so they are more comfortable. Are they uncomfortable because of a modesty issue or because they fear being assaulted? If it is the former then you have protected the modesty of .2% of the population while making uncomfortable probably half or more of the total female population. If it is the later then "well we got some laws against that". I don't know how long it has been since you were in high school or been around high school boys but if you think some will not push the envelope to find a way to successfully spend time in the girls locker room and bathrooms and come away with pics/video, then your head is a long way up your keester.

 

How is the law making half or more of the female population uncomfortable? Does this law mean every man will suddenly start using the women's restroom? I imagine this will be a very rare occurrence. As for actual transgendered women, I don't think that many women would be bothered by it.

 

To the last bolded, that already happens. In fact, trying to take video of girls locker rooms/bathrooms would probably be harder when attempting it in such an obvious way.

[funhusker]

 

Solid response JJ, even though we may disagree on the "mental health" of TG people.

 

Your reponse kind of matches the way "I" interpret the President's policy. We are grown ups. We can tell if a person "belongs" in a restroom. If they pee, wash hands, and get out; have a great day. A person should be able to choose which restroom makes them more comfortable in regards to that. However, if a 16 year old boy claims to be a girl so he can position a video camera in the girl showers, well we got some laws against that and the Administration acknowledges that.

 

I'm sad because the President had to come out with a policy that should be common sense that is already being practiced.

The reason I keep hearing that TG and TS need to use bathrooms of the gender they aren't is so they are more comfortable. Are they uncomfortable because of a modesty issue or because they fear being assaulted? If it is the former then you have protected the modesty of .2% of the population while making uncomfortable probably half or more of the total female population. If it is the later then "well we got some laws against that". I don't know how long it has been since you were in high school or been around high school boys but if you think some will not push the envelope to find a way to successfully spend time in the girls locker room and bathrooms and come away with pics/video, then your head is a long way up your keester.

 

Your correct! This may surprise you, but I agree. It isn't a modesty issue, it's a fear of assault. Welcome to the discusssion. A person should have the right to use the restroom where they feel the most comfortable. A place they can pee, wash hands, and get out. Anything else, there are laws already in place. The Target policy does NOT give me the right as a male to peep on women. It also gives the rigth to a "masculine" person to use the mens room to not freak out the 8 year old girl with his/"her" beard. And persuantly being beat to death by the 8-year-olds father when he finds the TG person in the girls bathroom....

[Landlord]

JJ, just want to say I appreciate your thoughts and posture in this thread. You've definitely got a more conservative slant than I do, but it isn't lacking compassion or a willingness to learn and look outside the box, which we all could benefit to do better with.

 

The "a bit off" element you're referring to with TG people is called gender dysphoria, which is an actual diagnosis of the unease/dissatisfaction that people have with their gender or sex at birth. It can come from a TON of different factors at play, but it's a struggle that those people have in common.

 

 

 

Now not to necessarily switch sides on this, but here's the two things that I don't quite understand or can't get entirely on board with logically when it comes to transgenderism.

 

First, gender dysphoria is essentially a lack of compatibility between one's sex and the gender they feel they identify with. The way I see this there are exactly two reconciling treatments for this: 1. Change your mind to match your body 2. Change your body to match your mind. Why, in 2016, is mutilating sex organs and pumping full of non-native hormones the only celebrated, loving, and 'good' solution, while the suggestion of going through therapy and counseling to get the mental state to match up with the biological state considered to be such a bigoted, barbaric idea? I think both could have merit in different scenarios, but especially when you get to the realization that biology ISN'T a social construct, it isn't relative, and it isn't unreliable. Our brains, however, are full of all kinds of detrimental, self-harming, inefficient neural pathways.

 

The other thing I don't really get is this. People who end up transitioning genders often do so out of a lifelong struggle from childhood of feeling pressured to fit into a narrow gender binary. So, the lesson being that the gender binary is bad, right? Isn't the solution to getting rid of this human-made construct to break down the binary, and isn't transitioning to the other gender only reinforcing the binary? If I have a son who likes to play dress up, likes playing with Barbies, is very affectionate and tender, and what some would call effeminate, isn't the best thing to do to simply go, "Cool. This is my sweet, affectionate boy who likes what he likes and is who he is."?