The General Election

[Moiraine]

 

 

Indeed, you have to go through some pretty unconventional contortions in order to arrive at a point where Up Is Down, Trump Is Truth, and Evidence Is Lies. But once you do get to that point, an entire Bizarro world of new possibilities opens up.

 

Anything goes -- and the claims you've chosen to rally around are impervious to any amount of critique. It's a sweet deal.

 

This is not a tactic limited to the far right, by the way.

Very true.

 

I have to keep reminding myself of that. I notice it more from the far right since that is the side I originally came from.

I've definitely been around left crazies too. There was some video out a couple years ago of someone applying a blow torch to snow and it evaporating right away instead of turning to water and their conclusion was that the government was putting chemicals in our clouds. I had a hippie FB friend who posted the video and was sincerely concerned about it.

 

Apparently they weren't paying attention when their chemistry teacher talkes about sublimation.

 

I've also been around people who think fluoride is a terrible contaminant and won't drink any water where it hasn't been removed and won't use toothpaste with fluoride in it. I'm all for studying things like this to make sure but fluoride has done a lot more good than bad.

 

I realize that wasn't exactly what you were discussing but I know with the fluoride stuff they won't listen to any amount of research on the subject no matter the expertise of the researchers. Reminds me of anti-vaxxers. Except anti-vaxxers can hurt other people.

[BigRedBuster]

Gary Johnson Libertarian town hall. I didn't have a chance to watch this when it originally aired so I listened to it now.

 

I can't say I agree with everything they say. But....MY GOD.....actually someone who acts like an adult and has a discussion on issues instead of just spewing crap.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_3833976661&feature=iv&src_vid=NHad94l4kBc&v=08X-wec8OcQ

[Danny Bateman]

 

 

Indeed, you have to go through some pretty unconventional contortions in order to arrive at a point where Up Is Down, Trump Is Truth, and Evidence Is Lies. But once you do get to that point, an entire Bizarro world of new possibilities opens up.

 

Anything goes -- and the claims you've chosen to rally around are impervious to any amount of critique. It's a sweet deal.

 

This is not a tactic limited to the far right, by the way.

Very true.

 

I have to keep reminding myself of that. I notice it more from the far right since that is the side I originally came from.

I've definitely been around left crazies too. There was some video out a couple years ago of someone applying a blow torch to snow and it evaporating right away instead of turning to water and their conclusion was that the government was putting chemicals in our clouds. I had a hippie FB friend who posted the video and was sincerely concerned about it.

 

Apparently they weren't paying attention when their chemistry teacher talkes about sublimation.

 

I've also been around people who think fluoride is a terrible contaminant and won't drink any water where it hasn't been removed and won't use toothpaste with fluoride in it. I'm all for studying things like this to make sure but fluoride has done a lot more good than bad.

 

I realize that wasn't exactly what you were discussing but I know with the fluoride stuff they won't listen to any amount of research on the subject no matter the expertise of the researchers. Reminds me of anti-vaxxers. Except anti-vaxxers can hurt other people.

 

 

Jesse Ventura can hurt other people, too. I wouldn't talk fluoride with that guy.

 

But hey, if he can be governor of Minnesota, maybe there's hope for Trump after all...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah, just kidding.

 

[AR Husker Fan]

Clinton leads Trump by 11 points in U.S. presidential race: Reuters/Ipsos

[HuskerNation1]

It's going to be an interesting general election. Most national polls have Hillary up by 5-7 points, but many battleground states are much closer. Trump was ahead in Maine in one poll recently, and near tied in Pennsylvania. Hillary has a 4 or 5 point lead in Florida, Ohio is close, NC is close, Virginia is close, and so on.

Also, outside of Wisconsin, the GOP seems to be performing surprisingly well in many hotly contested Senate races.

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/senate/

[HuskerNation1]

Here's an interesting read on Trump's plan for the convention. It continues his unorthodox approach and will also cause Hillary and the Dems to continue to dismiss him. Not sure how it will play out having Mike Ditka, Mike Tyson, and others speak.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-06-28/trump-campaign-lining-up-tyson-and-ditka-for-convention

 

With Tyson having abused his wife, it will be interesting to see if Hillary and her campaign want to step in that after Bill's abuse of a few women. I am certain that Juanita Broderick and other women he abused are not going to sit down quietly.

[Danny Bateman]

Is THIS what Trump's "negotiating" is going to look like? Is this foresight into how well his "dealmaking" for better trade deals will go?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/28/europe/uk-brexit-eu-referendum/index.html

 

 

EU chief to Brexiter Nigel Farage: 'Why are you here?'

 

Britain wants to hold off invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty -- which will officially begin the separation process -- until it knows what a future deal with the European Union will look like. The union wants the opposite, refusing to talk deals until the withdrawal is made official. German Chancellor Angela Merkel said Britain's separation from the EU was not a "cherry-picking exercise."

"If you want to exist and leave this family, then you cannot expect all the obligations to drop away but privileges to continue to exist," she said.

Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi told CNN's Christiane Amanpour that the UK would not be able to belong to the European single market without accepting the free movement of people.

"In my view, it's impossible to belong to (a) community only with the good things and not with the bad things," he said.

"It's impossible to be very communitarian about the economy and not about values. This is the problem, in my view, about this campaign."

....

On CNN, Farage called for the article to be invoked "in the next few weeks."

"I think we do need to send a message that we're serious about this," he said. "Let's crack on."

A Member of the European Parliament (MEP) since 1999, Farage appealed to MEPs to be "pragmatic, sensible, grown up" following the British public's vote last week to leave.

"Let's cut between us a sensible, tariff-free deal, and thereafter, recognize that the United Kingdom will be your friend -- that we will trade with you, we will cooperate with you, we will be your best friends in the world," he said.

....

The fiery exchanges took place as the EU Parliament convened for an extraordinary plenary session in Brussels Tuesday, with European and British delegates meeting to discuss the UK's complicated and potentially messy divorce from the bloc.

At one point, a German MEP accused Farage and fellow Leave campaigners of misleading the British public over the vote.

 

"The worst liars can be found among UKIP," said Manfred Weber, leader of the European People's Party, to loud applause.

"Mr. Farage, if you had an ounce of decency in you, you would apologize today to the British. Shame on you."

During his speech, Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Commission, turned to confront Farage and said he was surprised he was there.

"That's the last time you are applauding here," he said to the British Brexiters.

"You were fighting for the exit, the British people voted in favor of the exit. Why are you here?"

 

For the uninformed, Farage was the most vocal "Leave" campaign head and a member of the UK Independence Party, or the UKIP.

 

It seems to me that Farage and the rest of the pro-Brexit crowd wants to cut a sweet trade deal that allows them access to the European single market (which being in the EU grants), but does not want to accept the prescribed EU policies on immigration. The rest of the EU hates Farage, he hates them, and they're telling him to pound sand and calling him a liar.

 

Scotland wants to leave the UK and remain in the EU. Northern Ireland voted strongly to remain as well. There were enough old English folks that were stoked enough by nationalist and at times fiercely racist rhetoric that they decided to leave anyway. They've subsequently lost their AAA credit rating, have hurt global investment markets including our own, and appear headed to a recession. The country is essentially dissolving.

Cue Trump to negotiate us out of this mess.

[BigRedBuster]

It sure seems like a case of...."be careful what you wish for".

 

The more I read about this, the less I think the people who voted to leave are going to be happy with the result.

 

If this is what Trump thinks is a good move as a country.....no thanks.

[Red Five]

It's going to be an interesting general election. Most national polls have Hillary up by 5-7 points, but many battleground states are much closer. Trump was ahead in Maine in one poll recently, and near tied in Pennsylvania. Hillary has a 4 or 5 point lead in Florida, Ohio is close, NC is close, Virginia is close, and so on.

Also, outside of Wisconsin, the GOP seems to be performing surprisingly well in many hotly contested Senate races.

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/senate/

 

If Clinton stays up in the national race by 3+, it would be virtually impossible for Trump to win the electoral college.

 

FL - Hillary +3.4

OH - Hillary +3

PA - Hillary +2.5

VA - Hillary +4

NC - Trump +1.3

 

Trump at the bare minimum needs to go 4 for 5 in those states, and probably needs to go 5 for 5 to win. And then hope like hell that a GA, UT, or AZ doesn't flip to D.

[QMany]

[BigRedBuster]

A frustrating but interesting situation that is unfolding in the polls.

 

For Gary Johnson to be included in the debates (which I greatly wish would happen), he has to be polling at 15%. Unfortunately, almost all polls don't include him.

 

However, the ones that DO include him, also include Stein. Johnson clearly beats Stein but when you have both of them in the polls, Johnson isn't at the 15% mark. If you combine both together, they add up to just below the 15%.

 

So...I understand why they include Stein if they are going to include Johnson. But, if Stein weren't in the poll, Johnson would have a much better ability to reach the 15%.

[TGHusker]

Gary Johnson Libertarian town hall. I didn't have a chance to watch this when it originally aired so I listened to it now.

 

I can't say I agree with everything they say. But....MY GOD.....actually someone who acts like an adult and has a discussion on issues instead of just spewing crap.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_3833976661&feature=iv&src_vid=NHad94l4kBc&v=08X-wec8OcQ

Hey, I like the idea of 2 governors. We need decision makers. They guys are also business men (Trump isn't the only one!) plus they were good governors who made hard decisions and have good experience - .

[Guy Chamberlin]

 

 

 

So are all the pundits going to fact-check Hillary and Pocahontas' Trump-bashing speech?... I watched about 15 minutes of it and couldn't stand the inaccuracies, the political theatrics with no intention or meaning, and Elizabeth Warren's shaky voice, but everything that came out of their mouths up to that point was either a lie or a distorted version of the truth.

 

Most of the media refused to fact check Hillary, Warren, or Obama. That's just how it goes when you don't subscribe to their views. Regarding Warren, she actually scares me more than Bernie Sanders. For those that think Trump is a whack job, just listen to Warren talk for an hour, and the sad part is she is dead serious in her views. While I think Warren would excite the Democratic base as a VP pick, I think she would alienate moderates and Independents, not just because of her far left-wing views, but also I honestly don't think this country is ready for a dual female ticket. I honestly think it could backfire a bit as well. There is always a gender gap where Democrats win the female vote by 10 points (give or take a few) and Republicans win the male vote by 10 points (give or take a few). I think adding Warren keeps the female advantage about the same for the Dems, but drives up the male advantage for the Republicans.

 

 

The television media generally does a horrible job of fact-checking and context, period. People don't read the papers anymore. And they use the internet to find memes they already agree with.

 

But in a pinch you can always go to factcheck.org. It's run by the Annenberg Foundation -- one of Ronald Reagan's biggest benefactors -- but they do a good job of maintaining neutrality.

 

You'll find evidence there to make your case, but you'll also have to face evidence that destroys some of your other cases. That's the problem with facts.

 

Also, being neutral doesn't necessarily make both sides equal. Donald Trump and the Republican slate of candidates do not fare very well. And the claims against everything Obama has done in office don't hold up to scrutiny, either.

 

This is why I keep bringing up the Brexit example. Voters went for the raw, manipulative emotion and ignored the salient facts. Now they wished they'd paid better attention.

 

 

While factcheck was founded by a Reagan guy, they have veered to the left and have ties to Bill Ayers. I honestly have little trust for any site or news outlet claiming to be neutral. Built-in biases always exist, and some do a better job of pretending to be unbiased. For instance, a site like fact check may try to show Trump as "True" on a minor meaningless topic, but then "false" on a more important topic, and it would be just the opposite for Hillary.

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2923825/posts

 

 

That's not a very impressive "source" that you're choosing to believe.

 

If a strained connection to Bill Ayers is all it takes to ignore massive amounts of evidence to the contrary, I guess we're all f'd when it comes to facts.

[BigRedBuster]

 

Gary Johnson Libertarian town hall. I didn't have a chance to watch this when it originally aired so I listened to it now.

 

I can't say I agree with everything they say. But....MY GOD.....actually someone who acts like an adult and has a discussion on issues instead of just spewing crap.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_3833976661&feature=iv&src_vid=NHad94l4kBc&v=08X-wec8OcQ

Hey, I like the idea of 2 governors. We need decision makers. They guys are also business men (Trump isn't the only one!) plus they were good governors who made hard decisions and have good experience - .

 

My thoughts also.

[JJ Husker]

 

What Paul Manafort means is that he is very quick on his feet and is able to analyze things quickly and even very well.

 

 

I guess I'm not at the level of being able to keep up with Trump's ability to assess and communicate a knowledgeable position on things. Can you help explain these quotes to me?

 

 

 

 

Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart—you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you're a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us.

 

 

 

Well, I think Lincoln succeeded for numerous reasons. He was a man who was of great intelligence, which most presidents would be. But he was a man of great intelligence, but he was also a man that did something that was a very vital thing to do at that time. Ten years before or 20 years before, what he was doing would never have even been thought possible. So he did something that was a very important thing to do, and especially at that time.

 

 

As much as I dislike Hillary and would like to get behind supporting any other viable candidate, I just can't support Trump. This is supposedly somebody who is quick on their feet, smart, and able to analyze well? All he does is babble and every once in awhile hit on a hot button that some of his supporters want to hear. He is a complete idiot. I'm surprised his brain remembers to breathe. And, unfortunately, his competitor is a lying career politician.

 

Now tell me again who some other 3rd party candidates might be. Don't care if it is a wasted vote. Neither of these two are worth trying to justify or worth my vote. I would be ashamed if I was speaking in favor of either one of them. This least bad choice thing is utter bullsh#t. How about everyone starts only supporting good candidates? That is the only way things will start to improve. Attempting to justify either of these pathetic choices will only ensure that we get more and worse choices in the future. If this was five card draw, I'd throw them all in and take my chances.