The General Election

[Count 'Bility]

Alright guys. i see everyone's point. What i get out of it? At worst, he's just another politician. He lies. He cheats. he's crooked. He's unintelligent. And his ideal of America first is fake. So i personally dont see the big deal with voting for him.

[teachercd]

 

A little levity from Dolly Parton on this Election Day:

 

 

LOL....I love that woman.

 

Ha!

 

(Sadly there will be people that are upset at her joke)

[Atbone95]

Here's a map.

 

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/796091426127958016/photo/1

THANK YOU. Not going to lie, I'm color blind and that map before was REALLY f'ing with me.

[Count 'Bility]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ive said before that nothing would get better until ppl start relizing it starts and stops with senators, reps, etc. So no. I dont actually believe that Trump becoming president is gonna result in all that stuff actually happening Landlord. He's pullin sh#t out his ass like any other candidate to garner the support of a certain constituency. Like Obama with change. but here's the deal. If you really want some change, this is it. anti establishment. And i think the change can start from the top. for all his faults, he's also making know some of the issues that we have to fix. We have to fix our borders. But he's so damn extreme with how he says that it gets interpretted in a bad way. I dont really think he's gonna go around and round up muslims and ship em off. but the threat of islamic terrorism is a real thing in the world. So he hammers on it.

 

i guess as a not-so-educated voter, my opinion is Trump stands up there and tell me exactly things that are wrong, what kind of long term effects they can have and what he would do to fix it. Anti-establishment. Just a big picture thing.

 

i dont think any of this makes sense. im trying to hard to convince i think. I know what I think. I'm just struggling with the words.

Count, I greatly respect your opinion and how you so choose to vote. It's our individual choice. My question is simply to try to understand a Trump supporter more.

 

Question....I have heard over and over again about how Trump "tells it like it is". But, how do you, as a supporter, reconcile the fact he has been proven to lie so much and completely make stuff up? How is that "telling it like it is"?

Well if that's the way it's seen, then it's no worse than status quo, right? All he did at the very worst is point out the flaws in our system. may sound crazy, but to me it's and upside vs typical type of thing. None of the ridiculous extreme measures that folks get out of his stuff is gonna really happen, so I wanna see whats possible by going non-career politician in this thing, where his non-political correctness can be looked past to see what he can actually do behind the desk. he's a frickin bazzillionaire. he's not stupid. for all the criticism he gets on his finances, the numbers dont lie. He must know the loopholes. he must be smart about it. so why not? he cant be bought. What lobbyist is gonna buy off him? He's obviously a hard ass. I like that. you know i cant stand nicey nice for the sake of nicey nice.

he's made the money

banged all the women

Maybe he genuinely wants to fix the country and die? That's the last part of his legacy.

But isnt it possible that his behavior to get there in order to get certain support necessary isnt necessarily what he's all about? i wanna put him in the chair to see what he'll actually do. i dont care how he says it.

 

This all goes back to me saying, at the end of the day, probably not much will change. maybe some things for better. Some for worse. Depending who you are and your principles. If he winds up not being fit, we'll go again in 4 years. If he is, (which i think) he'll get 8. So i vote for him. Possible upside vs status quo. And i look past his extreme comments as blowing smoke. Like any other.

The bolded part is something I yearn for and crave like crazy. I so want a non-politician to come in and make changes. But, to me, he is flat out the wrong person for the job.

 

As to your first sentence or two. I'm not just talking about his "system is rigged" mantra. I'm talking about stuff he has said on the campaign trail since just about day one. The guy literally can not stand up in front of people and not totally make something up.

 

I never have understood people who get all hot in the panties about him because he "tells it like it is" when he flat out lies all the time.

i think it's the demeanor more than anything (to most) he portrays that hard ass that a lot of ppl appreciate. And, he's been consistent in the fact that with him, it's America first. I personally love that. Fix the borders. Bring the jobs back. Take care of us first. I fail to see what's wrong with that philosophy. So he hammers and hammers on that.

 

As far as the non politician part, he may be your only shot though. If he really is what i believe he is in that regard, how many have to resources to do what he's done? but, even if he loses, i'm not gonna bunker up. I'll be fine with it. At the end of the day, just his campaign-whether he's fit or not, which IS a matter of opinion-may have changed it forever. is it possible him getting this far, win or lose, has opened the door for a legit independent in the future? Cuz i think he'd runned as an indedpendent if he thought he coulda won that way..

 

And why wasnt Gary Johnson allowed to debate? What's the exact law/rule on that?

His words about America first are just as much of a lie as anything else out his mouth. He never practiced it in his buisness dealings. America first doesn't mean F everbody else, you still have to work with other nations and think practically, and America isn't white Christians.

 

 

Johnson couldn't poll high enough to make it into the debates. I think the debate committee requires candidates to poll at 15% to make it to the final debate stages.

 

So was he supposed to do business in a manner that was detrimental to his financial well being for the sake of it, that he might run for president one day? No. he did business in a way he could make the most money. that's business. And has brought light to the problem with our economy right now.

 

Not paying suppliers and employees is NOT an admirable way of doing business. Taking out loans that you know you will never repay is not an admirable way of doing business.

 

There are extremely successful people who are in business that don't do business the way he does business.

 

did they do a sh#t job? did they send the right stuff? or is this just an accusation becuase he's running for pres and hurt someone's feelings? I'm just asking. I dont need proof. I believe you. What what about the accountability factor. In these things dirt is always dug up on ppl and spun to benefit. Maybe those ppl really didnt deserve to be paid for whatever reason? We dont know.....

[BigRedBuster]

Alright guys. i see everyone's point. What i get out of it? At worst, he's just another politician. He lies. He cheats. he's crooked. He's unintelligent. And his ideal of America first is fake. So i personally dont see the big deal with voting for him.

As long as people understand that....fine. I can somehow respect that. I don't understand it. But, at least it's going in with your eyes wide open.

 

My biggest problem (and maybe you don't fall in this) is I personally know people who are not willing to open their eyes and see what they are voting for. These people are 100% all in with this guy and would follow him off the side of the earth if necessary. These people believe every word out of his mouth and think he is some type of genius that has uncovered all this stuff and everything he says is so profound and amazing. When, in fact, he is completely pulling this out of his ass and feeding people the load of crap.

 

That is a scary situation.

[TGHusker]

A little levity from Dolly Parton on this Election Day:

 

 

Good one.

 

So how long do you think it will take us to know the projected winner? 10 eastern or will this drag out like Ohio did between Kerry/GWB and hopefully not a Florida in 2000. I'm thinking 10 eastern - Iowa & Nevada will be closed at that time and those are both important states. Granted it takes a while to tally the vote but someone may try to be first to announce based on exit polls. Now if Clinton takes NC, Florida it will be over much sooner. Reality is Trump needs both of those states.

 

As fate would have it, I teach a class tonight so I won't be watching the returns as they come in. So enjoy the show

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ive said before that nothing would get better until ppl start relizing it starts and stops with senators, reps, etc. So no. I dont actually believe that Trump becoming president is gonna result in all that stuff actually happening Landlord. He's pullin sh#t out his ass like any other candidate to garner the support of a certain constituency. Like Obama with change. but here's the deal. If you really want some change, this is it. anti establishment. And i think the change can start from the top. for all his faults, he's also making know some of the issues that we have to fix. We have to fix our borders. But he's so damn extreme with how he says that it gets interpretted in a bad way. I dont really think he's gonna go around and round up muslims and ship em off. but the threat of islamic terrorism is a real thing in the world. So he hammers on it.

 

i guess as a not-so-educated voter, my opinion is Trump stands up there and tell me exactly things that are wrong, what kind of long term effects they can have and what he would do to fix it. Anti-establishment. Just a big picture thing.

 

i dont think any of this makes sense. im trying to hard to convince i think. I know what I think. I'm just struggling with the words.

Count, I greatly respect your opinion and how you so choose to vote. It's our individual choice. My question is simply to try to understand a Trump supporter more.

 

Question....I have heard over and over again about how Trump "tells it like it is". But, how do you, as a supporter, reconcile the fact he has been proven to lie so much and completely make stuff up? How is that "telling it like it is"?

Well if that's the way it's seen, then it's no worse than status quo, right? All he did at the very worst is point out the flaws in our system. may sound crazy, but to me it's and upside vs typical type of thing. None of the ridiculous extreme measures that folks get out of his stuff is gonna really happen, so I wanna see whats possible by going non-career politician in this thing, where his non-political correctness can be looked past to see what he can actually do behind the desk. he's a frickin bazzillionaire. he's not stupid. for all the criticism he gets on his finances, the numbers dont lie. He must know the loopholes. he must be smart about it. so why not? he cant be bought. What lobbyist is gonna buy off him? He's obviously a hard ass. I like that. you know i cant stand nicey nice for the sake of nicey nice.

he's made the money

banged all the women

Maybe he genuinely wants to fix the country and die? That's the last part of his legacy.

But isnt it possible that his behavior to get there in order to get certain support necessary isnt necessarily what he's all about? i wanna put him in the chair to see what he'll actually do. i dont care how he says it.

 

This all goes back to me saying, at the end of the day, probably not much will change. maybe some things for better. Some for worse. Depending who you are and your principles. If he winds up not being fit, we'll go again in 4 years. If he is, (which i think) he'll get 8. So i vote for him. Possible upside vs status quo. And i look past his extreme comments as blowing smoke. Like any other.

The bolded part is something I yearn for and crave like crazy. I so want a non-politician to come in and make changes. But, to me, he is flat out the wrong person for the job.

 

As to your first sentence or two. I'm not just talking about his "system is rigged" mantra. I'm talking about stuff he has said on the campaign trail since just about day one. The guy literally can not stand up in front of people and not totally make something up.

 

I never have understood people who get all hot in the panties about him because he "tells it like it is" when he flat out lies all the time.

i think it's the demeanor more than anything (to most) he portrays that hard ass that a lot of ppl appreciate. And, he's been consistent in the fact that with him, it's America first. I personally love that. Fix the borders. Bring the jobs back. Take care of us first. I fail to see what's wrong with that philosophy. So he hammers and hammers on that.

 

As far as the non politician part, he may be your only shot though. If he really is what i believe he is in that regard, how many have to resources to do what he's done? but, even if he loses, i'm not gonna bunker up. I'll be fine with it. At the end of the day, just his campaign-whether he's fit or not, which IS a matter of opinion-may have changed it forever. is it possible him getting this far, win or lose, has opened the door for a legit independent in the future? Cuz i think he'd runned as an indedpendent if he thought he coulda won that way..

 

And why wasnt Gary Johnson allowed to debate? What's the exact law/rule on that?

His words about America first are just as much of a lie as anything else out his mouth. He never practiced it in his buisness dealings. America first doesn't mean F everbody else, you still have to work with other nations and think practically, and America isn't white Christians.

 

 

Johnson couldn't poll high enough to make it into the debates. I think the debate committee requires candidates to poll at 15% to make it to the final debate stages.

 

So was he supposed to do business in a manner that was detrimental to his financial well being for the sake of it, that he might run for president one day? No. he did business in a way he could make the most money. that's business. And has brought light to the problem with our economy right now.

 

Not paying suppliers and employees is NOT an admirable way of doing business. Taking out loans that you know you will never repay is not an admirable way of doing business.

 

There are extremely successful people who are in business that don't do business the way he does business.

 

did they do a sh#t job? did they send the right stuff? or is this just an accusation becuase he's running for pres and hurt someone's feelings? I'm just asking. I dont need proof. I believe you. What what about the accountability factor. In these things dirt is always dug up on ppl and spun to benefit. Maybe those ppl really didnt deserve to be paid for whatever reason? We dont know.....

 

I personally know contractors in the NYC area. Clear back in January I asked a few of them what they thought of Trump....to a man, they scoffed and said they can't stand the guy because he is well known for not paying contractors and that's one major way he make so much money on construction sites.

 

People in the contracting business understand not getting paid if something is wrong on the job site. It's not acceptable to just not pay someone because you decide it's too expensive (after it's done). Heck...he has even bragged about this in the campaign.

 

Remember him bragging about being the "King of debt" and how he borrows money knowing he's not going to pay it back?

[NM11046]

I would bet all the stuff trump does in that regard is nothing out of the norm. But in this case, he made noise when he didnt answer the question of supporting the results of the election, and his constant accusations of rigging, so now everything he does from here on out will be heavily scrutinized, when it's probably the norm. Wasnt there stuff like this with Gore/Bush? i was in high school so i dont recall the details. didnt Gore challenge results of florida and not immediately accept election results?

 

My question is, what if it comes out there is legit fraud in favor of Hillary? What if. is it really crazy to wonder that? or even the other way? With all the technology involved, is not a possiblity? wouldnt that be the sh#ts.

So late that night the news stations called FL (early - maybe at 7 or 8) in favor of Gore. Then as they started counting it came down to a very close race around 10pm and Bush got hopeful. About 2 they declared him the winner of FL and at that time Gore conceded. By 3 am when he was headed to talk to his staff and do the taped "I congratulate Bush - America is great" tv interview his folks were saying that FL was too close to call, and he retracted his concession.

 

FL rules state that in close races ballots have to be recounted (initially they do this by machine again) so that initial recount wasn't requested by either - it had to be done according to the rules of the state. After the second count was close Gore then asked for a manual recount in the counties were there was known confusion and issues. Days go by with lots of bs ... Gore asks for manual recounts in more counties etc. and his supreme court case was actually to have the Dade County FL manual recount restarted (Katherine Harris had them stopped early).

 

Anybody can correct me where I'm wrong - agree or disagree with the outcome it sure made for an exciting election and week or two after!

[Count 'Bility]

 

Alright guys. i see everyone's point. What i get out of it? At worst, he's just another politician. He lies. He cheats. he's crooked. He's unintelligent. And his ideal of America first is fake. So i personally dont see the big deal with voting for him.

As long as people understand that....fine. I can somehow respect that. I don't understand it. But, at least it's going in with your eyes wide open.

 

My biggest problem (and maybe you don't fall in this) is I personally know people who are not willing to open their eyes and see what they are voting for. These people are 100% all in with this guy and would follow him off the side of the earth if necessary. These people believe every word out of his mouth and think he is some type of genius that has uncovered all this stuff and everything he says is so profound and amazing. When, in fact, he is completely pulling this out of his ass and feeding people the load of crap.

 

That is a scary situation.

 

well that's not me. And i think what started this whole thing with me is myself pointing out the bs of generalizing ppl into a bad group. Dont label me as a bigot if you dont even know me and the only thing you have to go off of is im voting for trump for other reasons. Then asking knapp, is it or is it not possible to vote for someone if you dont 100% agree with everything he stands for? But this is what's happening. and what i think will happen is Trump will win. There are so many ppl who are probably like me, in that that dont agree with everything, but are very intrigued, but dont dare go public with it for fear of the ridicule that has taken place within this very thread. But in the privacy of that booth? where no one has know? by god, theyre votin Trump. not nitpicking all his finite details and prying apart every word he says. But the fresh-appearing idea as a whole that he's selling. Not him. but the concept of the outsider that's gonna put America first.

 

It's the idea. Not the man.

 

Trump polarization is a result of a non PC figure in what has become a very PC society.

[Count 'Bility]

 

I would bet all the stuff trump does in that regard is nothing out of the norm. But in this case, he made noise when he didnt answer the question of supporting the results of the election, and his constant accusations of rigging, so now everything he does from here on out will be heavily scrutinized, when it's probably the norm. Wasnt there stuff like this with Gore/Bush? i was in high school so i dont recall the details. didnt Gore challenge results of florida and not immediately accept election results?

 

My question is, what if it comes out there is legit fraud in favor of Hillary? What if. is it really crazy to wonder that? or even the other way? With all the technology involved, is not a possiblity? wouldnt that be the sh#ts.

So late that night the news stations called FL (early - maybe at 7 or 8) in favor of Gore. Then as they started counting it came down to a very close race around 10pm and Bush got hopeful. About 2 they declared him the winner of FL and at that time Gore conceded. By 3 am when he was headed to talk to his staff and do the taped "I congratulate Bush - America is great" tv interview his folks were saying that FL was too close to call, and he retracted his concession.

 

FL rules state that in close races ballots have to be recounted (initially they do this by machine again) so that initial recount wasn't requested by either - it had to be done according to the rules of the state. After the second count was close Gore then asked for a manual recount in the counties were there was known confusion and issues. Days go by with lots of bs ... Gore asks for manual recounts in more counties etc. and his supreme court case was actually to have the Dade County FL manual recount restarted (Katherine Harris had them stopped early).

 

Anybody can correct me where I'm wrong - agree or disagree with the outcome it sure made for an exciting election and week or two after!

 

alright. it's comin back to me now. nice cliffs notes

 

so the election as a whole was close enough that Florida was a deciding factor?

[NM11046]

 

 

Well if that's the way it's seen, then it's no worse than status quo, right? All he did at the very worst is point out the flaws in our system. may sound crazy, but to me it's and upside vs typical type of thing. None of the ridiculous extreme measures that folks get out of his stuff is gonna really happen, so I wanna see whats possible by going non-career politician in this thing, where his non-political correctness can be looked past to see what he can actually do behind the desk. he's a frickin bazzillionaire. he's not stupid. for all the criticism he gets on his finances, the numbers dont lie. He must know the loopholes. he must be smart about it. so why not? he cant be bought. What lobbyist is gonna buy off him? He's obviously a hard ass. I like that. you know i cant stand nicey nice for the sake of nicey nice. he's made the moneybanged all the womenMaybe he genuinely wants to fix the country and die? That's the last part of his legacy.But isnt it possible that his behavior to get there in order to get certain support necessary isnt necessarily what he's all about? i wanna put him in the chair to see what he'll actually do. i dont care how he says it. This all goes back to me saying, at the end of the day, probably not much will change. maybe some things for better. Some for worse. Depending who you are and your principles. If he winds up not being fit, we'll go again in 4 years. If he is, (which i think) he'll get 8. So i vote for him. Possible upside vs status quo. And i look past his extreme comments as blowing smoke. Like any other.

1. Actually, we have no idea if Trump is really a "bazzillionaire". He refused to release his tax records and most of his financial statements. We DO know he has LOST a billion dollars, much of which was money he accumulated from his father directly or indirectly. In fact, his lack of transparency points to just the opposite.2. Where is the proof he's intelligent? His claims alone? Because there is no evidence he's some kind of genius.3. Numbers don't lie - if you can actually get the numbers. Again, Trump refused.4. What proof is there he can't be bought? We don't know his worth, but we do know that he has not even come close to providing his own campaign with the self-funding he claimed he would make; that he has not contributed to charities at anywhere close to the amounts he has claimed; that he has funded worthy causes at anywhere near the rates he's claimed.5. He CLAIMS to be a hard-ass, but in the one instance in which he had an opportunity to prove it - the meeting with the Mexican president - he chickened out. But more importantly, hard asses don't get things done. They make enemies. To do anything, he needs both chambers of Congress to agree. He's pissed off both parties, and has no chance of passing anything of substance. And he can claim he'll build a wall or renegotiate trade deals - but again, without Congress' approval, he doesn't get anything done. He's pissed off almost every demographic that he needs to push an agenda.

AR HF;

 

One thing that can be stated for sure, is that he has the ability to surround himself with successful people who make things happen. Everything you mentioned above may be disputable but you can't dispute his success. You might be able to question what one considered success, but I believe most would agree he has it better than the majority on many different fronts!

 

I can. I can dispute his success. We don't know how he has done in anything other than the legal files we can find publicly on his bankruptcy filings, court cases where he's refused to pay employees and vendors etc. Does he have his name on lots of buildings? Yes. Does he have money or has he been the one responsible for the supposedly good ventures? We don't know. We know he tells us he's worth a lot and we also know he exaggerates that by a ridiculous amount (by not subtracting out expenses, mortgage costs of properties etc) We know he is a master at avoiding taxes and playing the IRS. We know that he's figured out a way to claim to be benevolent when he is actually shuffling other people's money into his name and giving it away.

 

As far as surrounding himself with successful people - that too is a matter of opinion. When we're looking at Christie, Guliani, Gingrich at the top of lists for those he would put in cabinet positions I question his choices. As to the others he has mentioned getting highly coveted positions? His 3 kids. Who have zero real world experience, and no work experience other than turning up to their daddy's building in dress clothes every once and awhile.

 

He's not a man we can take at his word - he's proven over and over again that it's worth ZERO. And his judgement and who he surrounds himself with? Matter of opinion I guess.

 

EDIT: AR Husker - you said all this and more far better than I did. I started to respond then walked away for a bit and obviously didn't scroll back. Sorry to duplicate.

[AR Husker Fan]

AR HF;

 

One thing that can be stated for sure, is that he has the ability to surround himself with successful people who make things happen. Everything you mentioned above may be disputable but you can't dispute his success. You might be able to question what one considered success, but I believe most would agree he has it better than the majority on many different fronts!

Again, based on what? Who, exactly, are these people? And as for being better than the majority on many different fronts - again, know one knows that because he refused to be transparent. For all anyone knows, he's leveraged to his eyeballs, and one bad quarter could bring it crashing down and leave him a pauper. We don't KNOW.

[BigRedBuster]

 

I would bet all the stuff trump does in that regard is nothing out of the norm. But in this case, he made noise when he didnt answer the question of supporting the results of the election, and his constant accusations of rigging, so now everything he does from here on out will be heavily scrutinized, when it's probably the norm. Wasnt there stuff like this with Gore/Bush? i was in high school so i dont recall the details. didnt Gore challenge results of florida and not immediately accept election results?

 

My question is, what if it comes out there is legit fraud in favor of Hillary? What if. is it really crazy to wonder that? or even the other way? With all the technology involved, is not a possiblity? wouldnt that be the sh#ts.

So late that night the news stations called FL (early - maybe at 7 or 8) in favor of Gore. Then as they started counting it came down to a very close race around 10pm and Bush got hopeful. About 2 they declared him the winner of FL and at that time Gore conceded. By 3 am when he was headed to talk to his staff and do the taped "I congratulate Bush - America is great" tv interview his folks were saying that FL was too close to call, and he retracted his concession.

 

FL rules state that in close races ballots have to be recounted (initially they do this by machine again) so that initial recount wasn't requested by either - it had to be done according to the rules of the state. After the second count was close Gore then asked for a manual recount in the counties were there was known confusion and issues. Days go by with lots of bs ... Gore asks for manual recounts in more counties etc. and his supreme court case was actually to have the Dade County FL manual recount restarted (Katherine Harris had them stopped early).

 

Anybody can correct me where I'm wrong - agree or disagree with the outcome it sure made for an exciting election and week or two after!

 

A major part of this issue was also that there were lots of ballots that were very confusing as to who was actually voted for. Remember the "Hanging chad" issue? So, there was a major fight as to if these ballots should be thrown out. Personally, I think if it's not clear who was voted for, the ballot should be invalid and not counted.

 

If I remember right, it was ruled these ballots were to be excluded (which in my opinion was correct ruling) and that threw up a huge stink claiming Bush stole the election by throwing out ballots.

 

I'm sorry, if the ballot can not be verified by looking at it this close, throw it out.

 

 

 

[Count 'Bility]

 

 

 

Well if that's the way it's seen, then it's no worse than status quo, right? All he did at the very worst is point out the flaws in our system. may sound crazy, but to me it's and upside vs typical type of thing. None of the ridiculous extreme measures that folks get out of his stuff is gonna really happen, so I wanna see whats possible by going non-career politician in this thing, where his non-political correctness can be looked past to see what he can actually do behind the desk. he's a frickin bazzillionaire. he's not stupid. for all the criticism he gets on his finances, the numbers dont lie. He must know the loopholes. he must be smart about it. so why not? he cant be bought. What lobbyist is gonna buy off him? He's obviously a hard ass. I like that. you know i cant stand nicey nice for the sake of nicey nice. he's made the moneybanged all the womenMaybe he genuinely wants to fix the country and die? That's the last part of his legacy.But isnt it possible that his behavior to get there in order to get certain support necessary isnt necessarily what he's all about? i wanna put him in the chair to see what he'll actually do. i dont care how he says it. This all goes back to me saying, at the end of the day, probably not much will change. maybe some things for better. Some for worse. Depending who you are and your principles. If he winds up not being fit, we'll go again in 4 years. If he is, (which i think) he'll get 8. So i vote for him. Possible upside vs status quo. And i look past his extreme comments as blowing smoke. Like any other.

1. Actually, we have no idea if Trump is really a "bazzillionaire". He refused to release his tax records and most of his financial statements. We DO know he has LOST a billion dollars, much of which was money he accumulated from his father directly or indirectly. In fact, his lack of transparency points to just the opposite.2. Where is the proof he's intelligent? His claims alone? Because there is no evidence he's some kind of genius.3. Numbers don't lie - if you can actually get the numbers. Again, Trump refused.4. What proof is there he can't be bought? We don't know his worth, but we do know that he has not even come close to providing his own campaign with the self-funding he claimed he would make; that he has not contributed to charities at anywhere close to the amounts he has claimed; that he has funded worthy causes at anywhere near the rates he's claimed.5. He CLAIMS to be a hard-ass, but in the one instance in which he had an opportunity to prove it - the meeting with the Mexican president - he chickened out. But more importantly, hard asses don't get things done. They make enemies. To do anything, he needs both chambers of Congress to agree. He's pissed off both parties, and has no chance of passing anything of substance. And he can claim he'll build a wall or renegotiate trade deals - but again, without Congress' approval, he doesn't get anything done. He's pissed off almost every demographic that he needs to push an agenda.

AR HF;

 

One thing that can be stated for sure, is that he has the ability to surround himself with successful people who make things happen. Everything you mentioned above may be disputable but you can't dispute his success. You might be able to question what one considered success, but I believe most would agree he has it better than the majority on many different fronts!

 

I can. I can dispute his success. We don't know how he has done in anything other than the legal files we can find publicly on his bankruptcy filings, court cases where he's refused to pay employees and vendors etc. Does he have his name on lots of buildings? Yes. Does he have money or has he been the one responsible for the supposedly good ventures? We don't know. We know he tells us he's worth a lot and we also know he exaggerates that by a ridiculous amount (by not subtracting out expenses, mortgage costs of properties etc) We know he is a master at avoiding taxes and playing the IRS. We know that he's figured out a way to claim to be benevolent when he is actually shuffling other people's money into his name and giving it away.

 

As far as surrounding himself with successful people - that too is a matter of opinion. When we're looking at Christie, Guliani, Gingrich at the top of lists for those he would put in cabinet positions I question his choices. As to the others he has mentioned getting highly coveted positions? His 3 kids. Who have zero real world experience, and no work experience other than turning up to their daddy's building in dress clothes every once and awhile.

 

He's not a man we can take at his word - he's proven over and over again that it's worth ZERO. And his judgement and who he surrounds himself with? Matter of opinion I guess.

 

EDIT: AR Husker - you said all this and more far better than I did. I started to respond then walked away for a bit and obviously didn't scroll back. Sorry to duplicate.

 

not really. he hasnt proven anything. It's just a matter of opinion. Which is why we all have a vote and they campaign. that's something i dont get. He's proven. Well what about the other choice? has she not proven over and over again of her total lack of judgement and ability?

 

We know what we get from Clinton in this deal. She's already in a leadership role. not good.

 

That's the intrige of Trump. Again. the idea. the concept. not just the man.

[NM11046]

 

 

I would bet all the stuff trump does in that regard is nothing out of the norm. But in this case, he made noise when he didnt answer the question of supporting the results of the election, and his constant accusations of rigging, so now everything he does from here on out will be heavily scrutinized, when it's probably the norm. Wasnt there stuff like this with Gore/Bush? i was in high school so i dont recall the details. didnt Gore challenge results of florida and not immediately accept election results?

 

My question is, what if it comes out there is legit fraud in favor of Hillary? What if. is it really crazy to wonder that? or even the other way? With all the technology involved, is not a possiblity? wouldnt that be the sh#ts.

So late that night the news stations called FL (early - maybe at 7 or 8) in favor of Gore. Then as they started counting it came down to a very close race around 10pm and Bush got hopeful. About 2 they declared him the winner of FL and at that time Gore conceded. By 3 am when he was headed to talk to his staff and do the taped "I congratulate Bush - America is great" tv interview his folks were saying that FL was too close to call, and he retracted his concession.

 

FL rules state that in close races ballots have to be recounted (initially they do this by machine again) so that initial recount wasn't requested by either - it had to be done according to the rules of the state. After the second count was close Gore then asked for a manual recount in the counties were there was known confusion and issues. Days go by with lots of bs ... Gore asks for manual recounts in more counties etc. and his supreme court case was actually to have the Dade County FL manual recount restarted (Katherine Harris had them stopped early).

 

Anybody can correct me where I'm wrong - agree or disagree with the outcome it sure made for an exciting election and week or two after!

 

alright. it's comin back to me now. nice cliffs notes

 

so the election as a whole was close enough that Florida was a deciding factor?

 

I think it was maybe 1100 votes difference in FL, and they didn't end up really counting them all because of Harris and etc. Popular vote was all Gore, but electoral college was what screwed him. With Bush winning those certain counties in FL, he then got the electoral votes. It ended up being (I think) 271 to 266.