Gun Control

[Guy Chamberlin]

49 minutes ago, DefenderAO said:

Shootings (and many other actions) manifest from a morally decaying America which is made up of broken individuals.  

 

America celebrates much of what was considered immoral just years ago...and the slippery slope seems to have been slicked further.

 

Right. Just years ago racial integration was considered immoral. Justice Clarence Thomas' marriage would have been highly immoral. Homosexuality was considered immoral. Birth control was considered immoral. Non-Christian religions were immoral. Television shows could not show a married couple in the same bed, and when Petula Clark touched Nat King Cole's arm on national TV, network affiliates in the South refused to even air it.

 

Keep going back and you'll find women wearing slacks considered immoral, women voting immoral,  and young people not allowed to date without a chaperone. For some reason an entire group of people thought owning slaves was not immoral. 

 

So there's a long chain of social conservative making your same argument on behalf of a moral America, and they ended up on the wrong side of history. Almost like they never got the whole "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" thing.

 

Here's the test: does your moral code prevent someone from living the personal life they choose?  Does their life choice in any way dictate your life choice, or is it just something you'd rather not see? 

 

We're actually on a slippery slope to putting aside our prejudices and seeing if we can accept our differences — with everyone free to make their own self-determination. It's not a culture war. It's the American Way. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, DefenderAO said:

Feel free to break it down further.  Eventually you'll get to an individual fracture.  

 

City data has much more integrity than saying a state's voting color is driving a societal downfall.  

 

If you keep breaking it down you will find -- to nobody's surprise -- that crime spikes in low-income black neighborhoods.

That's not the answer to any question, just the beginning. 

[Archy1221]

 

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/nashville-shooter-bought-seven-guns-legally-despite-being-under-treatment-for-emotional-disorder/

[DefenderAO]

26 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Right. Just years ago racial integration was considered immoral. Justice Clarence Thomas' marriage would have been highly immoral. Homosexuality was considered immoral. Birth control was considered immoral. Non-Christian religions were immoral. Television shows could not show a married couple in the same bed, and when Petula Clark touched Nat King Cole's arm on national TV, network affiliates in the South refused to even air it.

 

Keep going back and you'll find women wearing slacks considered immoral, women voting immoral,  and young people not allowed to date without a chaperone. For some reason an entire group of people thought owning slaves was not immoral. 

 

So there's a long chain of social conservative making your same argument on behalf of a moral America, and they ended up on the wrong side of history. Almost like they never got the whole "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" thing.

 

Here's the test: does your moral code prevent someone from living the personal life they choose?  Does their life choice in any way dictate your life choice, or is it just something you'd rather not see? 

 

We're actually on a slippery slope to putting aside our prejudices and seeing if we can accept our differences — with everyone free to make their own self-determination. It's not a culture war. It's the American Way. 

A majority-view doesn't make something more aligned with truth.  Something widely practiced doesn't either.  The irony on integration, progressivism is so broken you're now seeing demands of segregation from the individuals whose parents and grandparents fought for rightful integration.  

 

Some of the oldest books written were, in part, informational and others instructional - "this is what was happening" vs "this is what is good."  Just because something was happening doesn't make it right.  Truth is no person has more or less value than another.  Women and men, other races...all valuable.  

 

Where we're at today?  Celebrating sexualizing and mutilating children, blaming a tool for a horrific tragedy vs. the responsibility of the individual (and others).  Men are competing as women and destroying records.  Men are "woman of the year" winners.  Where's the line?  You can identify as literally anything you want?  

 

My kids want to play in traffic.  That's their truth that it could be fun.  Allow it as to not infringe on individual (child...smh) liberty?  The four year old wakes up and says "I'm a different gender!"  Cut them up because that's what's good for them?

 

"Live and let live" is a huge reason why we're here.  North isn't North.  It's wherever you say it is.

 

Looking forward to these tragedies making your list of finally moving towards what is better.  

[DefenderAO]

23 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

If you keep breaking it down you will find -- to nobody's surprise -- that crime spikes in low-income black neighborhoods.

That's not the answer to any question, just the beginning. 

 

Cultural issues as I've raised.  And I'd posit the policies in those areas propagate a further push to those ends.

 

22 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

 

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/nashville-shooter-bought-seven-guns-legally-despite-being-under-treatment-for-emotional-disorder/

[Guy Chamberlin]

15 minutes ago, DefenderAO said:

A majority-view doesn't make something more aligned with truth.  Something widely practiced doesn't either.  The irony on integration, progressivism is so broken you're now seeing demands of segregation from the individuals whose parents and grandparents fought for rightful integration.  

 

Some of the oldest books written were, in part, informational and others instructional - "this is what was happening" vs "this is what is good."  Just because something was happening doesn't make it right.  Truth is no person has more or less value than another.  Women and men, other races...all valuable.  

 

Where we're at today?  Celebrating sexualizing and mutilating children, blaming a tool for a horrific tragedy vs. the responsibility of the individual (and others).  Men are competing as women and destroying records.  Men are "woman of the year" winners.  Where's the line?  You can identify as literally anything you want?  

 

My kids want to play in traffic.  That's their truth that it could be fun.  Allow it as to not infringe on individual (child...smh) liberty?  The four year old wakes up and says "I'm a different gender!"  Cut them up because that's what's good for them?

 

"Live and let live" is a huge reason why we're here.  North isn't North.  It's wherever you say it is.

 

Looking forward to these tragedies making your list of finally moving towards what is better.  

 

Just to be clear:  you think "live and let live" is the problem? 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

28 minutes ago, DefenderAO said:

 

Cultural issues as I've raised.  And I'd posit the policies in those areas propagate a further push to those ends.

 

 

What policies are those and what might be done to correct them? 

 

Or having already existed for a couple hundred years, should we just keep it contained to those zip codes?

[DefenderAO]

Just now, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Just to be clear:  you think "live and let live" is the problem? 

 

Surprised that was the lone point you pulled from my reply.

 

Human brokenness is the problem.  Systems like relativistic truth and "live and let live" manifest from that fracture.  

 

North is what you believe it is today.  There's nothing good or bad...it's what you feel it is.  A city on sand.

 

Should kids get to play in traffic because that's what they feel is good for them?  How about a five year old having his genitals lopped off because his mom saw him play with a barbie and he said he likes pink that day?  

 

The slippery slope becomes a free fall into the abyss.

[DefenderAO]

14 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

What policies are those and what might be done to correct them? 

 

Or having already existed for a couple hundred years, should we just keep it contained to those zip codes?

Current housing policies, reliance on aid vs. empowering those to change their lives etc.  It's so deep seated now I'm not sure what massive reform looks like.  There is a dependence on government to aid... for a culture there could be an ambivalence of "I'm owed" with contempt they're there in the first place.  

 

I fear it's been so ingrained, outside of personal responsible to change, I am not sure it can.  And I don't believe it's by accident.  

[ColoradoHusk]

7 minutes ago, DefenderAO said:

Should kids get to play in traffic because that's what they feel is good for them?  How about a five year old having his genitals lopped off because his mom saw him play with a barbie and he said he likes pink that day?  

 

 

Do you have one specific example of this actually happening?  Or are you just using rhetoric of what you think is happening to say how our society is messed up and these people are immoral, which leads to more gun violence.

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 minute ago, DefenderAO said:

 

 

Should kids get to play in traffic because that's what they feel is good for them?  How about a five year old having his genitals lopped off because his mom saw him play with a barbie and he said he likes pink that day?  

 

The slippery slope becomes a free fall into the abyss.

 

No it doesn't. You came up with a s#!tty analogy and pushed it off a cliff.

 

I'm really trying to work with you here, but you've wildly exaggerated your straw man arguments trying to maintain your moral high ground. Nobody says or believes half the stuff you're laying at the feet of "progressives," and the other half lands smack in the middle of complex issues you are determined to categorically declare good or evil. History shows that doesn't really work, but you be you. 

 

Maybe you're the guy to answer the eternal mystery:  what year would you like America to go back to, and why?

 

Show your homework.  

[DefenderAO]

1 minute ago, ColoradoHusk said:

Do you have one specific example of this actually happening?  Or are you just using rhetoric of what you think is happening to say how our society is messed up and these people are immoral, which leads to more gun violence.

HBO documentary "Transhood."  The examples are not hard to find even through media that generally celebrates it as good.

 

It's filth and now normalized.  

 

Gun control - take the guns, make sheep of the law-abiding, and the criminals get more brazen...

 

Gun violence is a symptom.  Treating the symptom doesn't bring reform.  Transgenderism is another symptom.  In this recent shooting case, we have both prevalent.   

 

Mutilated kids and gun violence will continue if the root is not understood and worked through.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

9 minutes ago, DefenderAO said:

Current housing policies, reliance on aid vs. empowering those to change their lives etc.  It's so deep seated now I'm not sure what massive reform looks like.  There is a dependence on government to aid... for a culture there could be an ambivalence of "I'm owed" with contempt they're there in the first place.  

 

I fear it's been so ingrained, outside of personal responsible to change, I am not sure it can.  And I don't believe it's by accident.  

 

There's a lot of truth to this.

 

But there has also been a lot of progress in the last 50 years shrinking those zip codes and increasing the opportunities.

 

Interestingly enough, many people threatened by change --  much like you -- have fought this empowerment as affirmative action while insisting there is no such thing as systemic racism. 

[DefenderAO]

7 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

No it doesn't. You came up with a s#!tty analogy and pushed it off a cliff.

 

I'm really trying to work with you here, but you've wildly exaggerated your straw man arguments trying to maintain your moral high ground. Nobody says or believes half the stuff you're laying at the feet of "progressives," and the other half lands smack in the middle of complex issues you are determined to categorically declare good or evil. History shows that doesn't really work, but you be you. 

 

Maybe you're the guy to answer the eternal mystery:  what year would you like America to go back to, and why?

 

Show your homework.  

 

Straw men?  Kids are being mutilated to change genders.  That's reality.  Objective truth isn't a high ground, it's understanding subjective truth is chaos.  If this point makes you upset or contemptuous, I cannot help you there.  

 

I'll take the America I'm in today with all of its good and bad.  

[NM11046]

I don't think the documentary that you reference supports your argument of "filth, mutilation, sheep" and all the other offensive generalizations you've made on this thread.  There was no "loping off" of anything in it, and to my knowledge that's not an issue anywhere in the US until someone is of legal age and can  make that informed decision with the support of their mental care team.  Perhaps you didn't actually watch it?

We get it - you have issue with people that aren't like you or don't think like you.  It's obvious with your aggressive verbiage here the hatred that you feel and honestly it's pretty scary.

 

Gun violence is a problem, not a symptom.  Perhaps many issues or what you call "symptoms" play into someone taking that step, but the end result is a problem.  There's  not a bigger problem than death at the hand of another.  And there's no mutilation bigger than what an AR weapon does to a person that's shot with it multiple times.