Nebraska's Michael Rose-Ivey receives racial backlash for anthem protest

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

 

Ron Brown's comments were also incredibly unfortunate.

 

RedDenver made a good point above: it's not the freeness of their speech, it's how it's used.

 

Hal Daub is right that the athletes have some responsibility to be representing UNL well. Through the sum of their actions, they have. And they're not out here promoting their personal politics. Their expression of solidarity resonates, clearly as we can see in this thread, across all political lines.

 

When Ron Brown said what he did, he created an explicitly hostile atmosphere to gay people at Nebraska. There have gay football players at Nebraska in the past, and there probably are now. It was extremely disappointing to see that coming from a man empowered as a coach and a leader at a university.

 

Bingo to what is bolded...that is what started this debate...how the freedom of speech has been used via protesting the national anthem.

 

 

 

Why are you saying "bingo" ? You've gone on and on about hypocrisy and how we're complaining about what Ricketts said and how he should have the right to free speech too. Nobody has argued he doesn't have a right to say what he did, yet you're implying his free speech rights are being questioned. They haven't and they aren't, yet you've been saying it for about 2 pages now.

 

 

Did you not see the part "Its how its used" suggesting that how freedom of speech is used does matter. Some on here were questioning how Ricketts went about using his freedom of speech, just as others question how CK and MRI are using their freedom of speech.

 

 

 

I saw the part about how you whined that Ricketts isn't allowed to have his say, which is false.

 

People complaining about the players doing this are being argued with. They're not being told they're not allowed to be upset.

 

 

There are 2 sets of reactions going on here. Those that are upset about the protesters are reacting and others defending them for how they are choosing to voice their freedom of expression, and those that are upset at Ricketts and others defending him for how he chose to voice his freedoms. The point is that if you were initially defending the protesters and pushing back on those who disagreed with how they chose to express their freedoms, then don't turn around and whine about how Ricketts is choosing to express his freedoms.

 

There is HUGE difference between a few players having a peaceful protest during the national anthem and paid and elected officials who (through those elections) are PAID to represent the University and the state publicly voicing the opinions they did.

 

Now....all the above have the freedom to do so. But, when one of the top officials of the University claims these players should be kicked off the team for this....well.....he needs to be shown the door and head on down the road.

[GBRHouston]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ricketts' reaction was poor and completely unbefitting a governor. There's really no excuse for that.

 

The kids on the team who did this were thoughtful, conscientious, and earnest. They expressed their views politely and respectfully. Their teammates and coaches around them, many of whom I promise you disagree with protesting the anthem, gave them nothing but love and respect in return. Under Riley's leadership, it was more or less a clinic in class and coming together during a fraught time.

 

I'm glad the governor is now meeting with MRI. But initially, this was utterly tone-deaf on Ricketts' part. And a country mile worse on the part of Hal Daub.

 

Those of you defending Ricketts, this isn't about his free speech having been infringed. This is about you agreeing with his decision to step in and call these actions disgraceful on the same day the team itself put up such a wonderful display of unity and understanding.

But here's the thing...those of us who disagree with CK and MRI protesting the flag believe that action is disgraceful and disrespectful despite recognizing they have the right to do it. Heck, they can spit on the flag, burn it as has been done often in this country, etc... This country offers them that right, but it also offers other citizens, including an elected official, the right to voice his disagreement with their actions. So as I said before, this is a 2-way street.

 

What are you arguing against? No one is disputing free speech.

 

But there are some arguing with how Ricketts is using his freedom of speech, while bashing anyone who disagrees with how MRI is using his freedom of speech. See the hypocrisy. This is a debate and topic where there is going to be strong division no matter what others say.

 

So it is hypocrisy to criticize an elected official that publicly passes judgement on the legal and protected actions of a private citizen?!? Fun facts like one person makes/enforces Government policy and the other does not would have no bearing in this situation, correct?

 

Yes...just because you are an elected official does not mean you lose your right to express your views. I don't agree with the regent suggesting they should be kicked off the team, but that is not what Ricketts (the elected official) stated. I know our current POTUS has weighed in on controversial topics rather quickly...so are you suggesting he should not be doing that?

 

I agree with you. I love how freedom of speech is "a great thing" until people say they don't support the anthem protests. Freedom of speech goes out the window for us who don't support according to a lot of people.

 

Have you been arrested? Has anyone tried to stop you from talking about it other than to say they disagree with what you're saying?

 

No. No I have not been arrested. And I have been shut down numerous times and been verbally attacked many times by people who disagreed with me. Not on here, but on various other platforms.

[Moiraine]

 

I was fine with silent protests that are not hurting anything.

...except for the silent protest that didn't hurt anything last Saturday, apparently?

 

 

 

GBRHouston, I'd be curious to hear exactly where/how racism does still exist in this country, from your perspective? I hear a lot of people say something along the lines of, "Hey I'm not saying racism doesn't still exist", but then they spend pretty much all of their time refuting evidence of it existing.

 

 

This is how I feel. It is not racist to be against what the players did, but the conversation that has followed here and all over the U.S. has shown that quite a few people are against it for racist reasons. Namely the people who say they have nothing to protest against.

[sho]

Just skimmed through this beginning part of this thread and it made me sad and disappointed. Too much emphasis on the how people are protesting, not enough about the why people are protesting. More of the same shoot the messenger, ignore the message mentality.

 

As a white, middle aged male, I have no real idea of the systematic racism that MRI and every other minority has to deal with on a daily basis. I can only express empathy and hope that my kids, and all kids, will see a more harmonized future. It saddens me that as culture and a society, we appear to be no farther along in our attitudes and beliefs than we were in the 1960s, we have just done a better job of hiding our racism in the corners, under the rugs, in the outskirts of our society and not doing enough to eradicate the problem.

 

As I pointed out, I am white middle aged male. I am the son of a military veteran, who is 100% disabled due to his service in combat during Vietnam. I respect our military forces, applaud them for the bravery and actions that majority of them portray. I also hear the concerns that CK, MRI and countless others before them have expressed. I see their actions and calls for change, I respect them and their desire to have peaceful dialog in hopes that we can change. Because of all that, while I'm in the stadium Saturday, I will stay seated(and if I had the space to actually kneel, I would) during the anthem as they are unable to do so. I will stand (or in this case sit/kneel) with them and their hope of bringing about change. I also encourage any others that understand and support what these protestors are fighting for join their cause, show them a sign of solidarity. Show them that all people, regardless of gender, orientation, race deserve to be treated equally in both theory and practice. This should no longer be just about a handful of high profile players starting to take a stand, this should be about a ground swelling of support for all people to say "no more". MRI deserves better, CK deserves better, I deserve better, my kids deserve better, your kids deserve better. This isn't about disrespecting the flag or our troops, this is about saying we are all brothers, we are all united, we are all deserving to be free and safe.

[HuskerNation1]

 

 

 

 

 

There's something big happening and I think we need to look at the possibility that it's good.

 

I think guys like Ricketts and Daub took the kind of position they have taken their whole lives, and fully expected the bedrock majority in our conservative state to welcome their comments. It was the initial first reaction of a lot of people. Good people who don't think they're racist.

 

Maybe Ricketts and Daub and others immediately outraged didn't expect the blowback to go against them. Not the politically correct blowback some try to blame on media orchestration, but a genuine seismic shift of a younger generation who shrug these things off, and a boomer generation that has have lived long enough to realize their personal experience doesn't dictate everyone else's.

 

Knee jerk reactions are giving in to reappraisals. People are figuring out they can live with more differences than they thought. Combat veterans aren't speaking with one voice, and neither are BLM supporters. The coach is speaking more about unity than division. The football player in question is meeting with the Governor.

 

Honestly, for as much as people hate these kind of threads, I'm pretty impressed with the level of discourse on a Husker football fan site.

 

Michael Rose-Ivey certainly wasn't wrong doing what he did for the reasons he stated.

What exactly do you mean by the part in bold? That anyone who disagrees with CK or others protesting the anthem are racist? Please, explain your rationale.

Yeah, that whole paragraph comes off like a passive aggressive form of calling conservatives racist.

Exactly...it's the pathetic left response that if you don't agree with their views on political correctness, you are deemed a racist...even if you don't know it. Lol. This is like the "baskets of deplorables."

 

 

Here's a good link with a good interview on this topic. I fully agree with the speaker's sentiment (Jason Whitlock):

 

http://louderwithcrowder.com/nfl-ratings-drop/

This fists in the air, the disrespect for the flag, the bringing up — the unnuanced, unfair demonization of police. Because again, name me as a black person. Do I want to be judged as a group by the worst behavior of a few black people, the way we’re judging the police based on the worst behavior of a few people?

We are demonizing the entire police force, and Kaepernick has done that with the socks and some of his statements. It’s an unnuanced attack which makes people uncomfortable, and I do believe people will push away from football after this.

I don't want to speak for Guy, but I think you two are being a little too defensive and over-reactionary over the term racist. Sure, it's a hot-button term, but I see plenty of racism all around me in the white midwest. Including in myself.

 

If you have a racial bias, or pre-judge people based on their race, then you are, by definition racist. I'm racist. I don't use the N-word, but there are times that I treat people differently based on race. There are times that I have a preconceived idea about someone I don't know based on their race. I don't mean to, and its usually an unconscious thing, but I do it.

 

I think that when people start to come to terms with their own biases, (rather than ignoring them, or claiming moral superiority), then its possible to change our views a little.

 

The real injustice is ignoring the problem.

I agree with your point that everyone is racist, to extent. I was piggy backing on BNILHOME's post because I'm interested in hearing from Guy what that paragraph means coming from him.. To me, it comes off like a smug attack saying racism is ingrained in conservatives. Maybe Guy isn't making that point, which is why I said what I did. I am "defensive" over it because where I grew up in the PNW, these were the type of snarky remarks made by friends and strangers about conservatives.

 

 

Exactly...I get that too Savage. If I have a substantive policy difference or philosophical difference and and present facts are make a coherent argument, the immediate response is to label someone a racist. We all can recall just a few weeks ago the "baskets of deplorables" comment that was used, and in the P&R forum, many on here who are defending the kneeling are also the ones who strongly defended the deplorables remark that involved calling millions and millions of Americans as racist.

[Huskerford1]

 

 

Originally, I supported the right to protest but didn't really agree with the cause. I mean, there's a bunch of racist stuff being done by cops, but there are hundreds of thousands of cops and we're only seeing a small sampling.

 

But the reaction to a peaceful protest, both in the comments on this board but even more so elsewhere, has revealed to me that racism is far more prevalent and deeply rooted in our society than I'd like to believe. Quite frankly, I'm saddened and appalled.

 

Well said. It's disgusting. I'm getting so sick of this casual/maybe subconscious racism that I'm seeing all over the place by people who think they're not racist.

IMG_0578.PNG

[GBRHouston]

 

 

I was fine with silent protests that are not hurting anything.

...except for the silent protest that didn't hurt anything last Saturday, apparently?

 

 

 

GBRHouston, I'd be curious to hear exactly where/how racism does still exist in this country, from your perspective? I hear a lot of people say something along the lines of, "Hey I'm not saying racism doesn't still exist", but then they spend pretty much all of their time refuting evidence of it existing.

 

 

This is how I feel. It is not racist to be against what the players did, but the conversation that has followed here and all over the U.S. has shown that quite a few people are against it for racist reasons. Namely the people who say they have nothing to protest against.

 

Oy vey.

 

Am I being called racist even after saying multiple times that I am not racist, and that I agree racism is a problem? That is what Landlord seems to be saying. I am from Texas, and the vast majority of people there are not racist, I am not going to feed any stereotypes. However, I have also seen some racism there. some of it pretty bad, to the point where it even offended me, and I am white. So do not open your mouth to call someone racist if they have not said a single racist thing.

[RedDenver]

I love how freedom of speech is "a great thing" until people say they don't support the anthem protests. Freedom of speech goes out the window for us who don't support according to a lot of people.

This is absolutely false. The 1st Amendment protects you from censorship not from criticism. You are being criticized not censored.

[Guy Chamberlin]

 

There's something big happening and I think we need to look at the possibility that it's good.

 

I think guys like Ricketts and Daub took the kind of position they have taken their whole lives, and fully expected the bedrock majority in our conservative state to welcome their comments. It was the initial first reaction of a lot of people. Good people who don't think they're racist.

 

Maybe Ricketts and Daub and others immediately outraged didn't expect the blowback to go against them. Not the politically correct blowback some try to blame on media orchestration, but a genuine seismic shift of a younger generation who shrug these things off, and a boomer generation that has have lived long enough to realize their personal experience doesn't dictate everyone else's.

 

Knee jerk reactions are giving in to reappraisals. People are figuring out they can live with more differences than they thought. Combat veterans aren't speaking with one voice, and neither are BLM supporters. The coach is speaking more about unity than division. The football player in question is meeting with the Governor.

 

Honestly, for as much as people hate these kind of threads, I'm pretty impressed with the level of discourse on a Husker football fan site.

 

Michael Rose-Ivey certainly wasn't wrong doing what he did for the reasons he stated.

 

What exactly do you mean by the part in bold? That anyone who disagrees with CK or others protesting the anthem are racist? Please, explain your rationale.

 

 

I mean good people who don't believe they are racist.

 

People like me. Who sometimes has to be reminded that my experience and wishful thinking doesn't explain everything away.

 

Good people who simply don't HAVE the experience. Who can't understand what it's like being black in America, and truly, sweetly believe that because they get along so well with that nice black lady in Accounts Receivable that race isn't a problem anymore.

 

Good people who believe in good things like dutiful policemen, brave soldiers and the U.S. Constitution, but get swayed into thinking a legitimate protest flies in the face of that. Because we seem hard-wired to choose sides. If you think the mainstream media advances a progressive agenda, you also have Sean (look at Chicago!) Hannity churning out the simplistic bromides that good people swallow and repeat without much reflection.

 

But when you get a little more reflection -- like what's happening now -- a lot of good people are kind and honest enough to admit they really don't understand what someone else's life might be like. And they're open to the possibility that their inattention has played into a lot of systemic racism. The kind of racism that relies on good people doing nothing.

 

That's my rationale.

 

We good?

[zoogs]

As I recall, our national anthem has a pretty racist past.

I didn't know that. Thanks for bringing it up.

No refuge could save the hireling and slave

From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,

And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave

O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The Intercept article

Full lyrics (PDF)

[CPT Blackshirt]

I do not post much on here - mostly when I drink too much after a game day (sorry moderators). I am a younger guy, so the ways of the world (past, present and future) are always being shaped in my mind as I try to learn more. I do have some black cousins, black friends etc... and I also know that I am a privileged white male that does not see everything through the right lens all the time - I'm not perfect. But I know that these issues exist, I know that there are problems, and at the same time I know that people can generally express themselves however they want. I don't agree with aspects of the anthem protests or BLM movement (I am an ALM kind of guy), but I also admit I do not have intimate knowledge about either - just a clouded opinion. What I think I know is that these movements are working - positive or negative - people are talking about it. In the PR world that is generally viewed as a win - being at the forefront of the general public's thought. Hopefully more tangible things are done soon, more steps taken to actually do something after this momentum has been created from these expressions of free speech. You have people talking, you are on the public's mind, now what is your ask? Get people to act on them, ask them for something, or nothing will change. Heaven forbid you have started all of this and something tragic happens in the landscape of America (which, lets face it, seems to be at least every 6 months or so) and you will have to try and re-capture the fickle media fed minds across the country.

 

Regardless of any of that, I live in Florida now, which means I should generally never be embarrassed about anything given what people are like here... but for the first time this week - after hearing some of the things that 'leaders' said from our state - I was pretty embarrassed to be associated with Nebraska. It will forever be my home, I know that the majority are good, and I still have a deep love for it - but it feels like a large black eye. Just my unwanted two cents on all of this.

[zoogs]

Just skimmed through this beginning part of this thread and it made me sad and disappointed. Too much emphasis on the how people are protesting, not enough about the why people are protesting. More of the same shoot the messenger, ignore the message mentality.

 

As a white, middle aged male, I have no real idea of the systematic racism that MRI and every other minority has to deal with on a daily basis. I can only express empathy and hope that my kids, and all kids, will see a more harmonized future. It saddens me that as culture and a society, we appear to be no farther along in our attitudes and beliefs than we were in the 1960s, we have just done a better job of hiding our racism in the corners, under the rugs, in the outskirts of our society and not doing enough to eradicate the problem.

 

As I pointed out, I am white middle aged male. I am the son of a military veteran, who is 100% disabled due to his service in combat during Vietnam. I respect our military forces, applaud them for the bravery and actions that majority of them portray. I also hear the concerns that CK, MRI and countless others before them have expressed. I see their actions and calls for change, I respect them and their desire to have peaceful dialog in hopes that we can change. Because of all that, while I'm in the stadium Saturday, I will stay seated(and if I had the space to actually kneel, I would) during the anthem as they are unable to do so. I will stand (or in this case sit/kneel) with them and their hope of bringing about change. I also encourage any others that understand and support what these protestors are fighting for join their cause, show them a sign of solidarity. Show them that all people, regardless of gender, orientation, race deserve to be treated equally in both theory and practice. This should no longer be just about a handful of high profile players starting to take a stand, this should be about a ground swelling of support for all people to say "no more". MRI deserves better, CK deserves better, I deserve better, my kids deserve better, your kids deserve better. This isn't about disrespecting the flag or our troops, this is about saying we are all brothers, we are all united, we are all deserving to be free and safe.

 

Bravo. Good man. And GBR!

 

Well said to you, too, CPT Blackshirt! Thank you for sharing those thoughts.

[Moiraine]

 

This is how I feel. It is not racist to be against what the players did, but the conversation that has followed here and all over the U.S. has shown that quite a few people are against it for racist reasons. Namely the people who say they have nothing to protest against.

Oy vey.

 

Am I being called racist even after saying multiple times that I am not racist, and that I agree racism is a problem? That is what Landlord seems to be saying. I am from Texas, and the vast majority of people there are not racist, I am not going to feed any stereotypes. However, I have also seen some racism there. some of it pretty bad, to the point where it even offended me, and I am white. So do not open your mouth to call someone racist if they have not said a single racist thing.

 

 

Read what I wrote again. My comment wasn't aimed at you.

[ColoNoCoHusker]

 

As I recall, our national anthem has a pretty racist past.

I didn't know that. Thanks for bringing it up.

No refuge could save the hireling and slave

From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,

And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave

O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The Intercept article

Full lyrics (PDF)

 

 

Thanks for grabbing that Zoogs. On a restricted connection atm...

[GBRHouston]

 

I love how freedom of speech is "a great thing" until people say they don't support the anthem protests. Freedom of speech goes out the window for us who don't support according to a lot of people.

This is absolutely false. The 1st Amendment protects you from censorship not from criticism. You are being criticized not censored.

 

I get what the 1st amendment means, and in most cases, I will agree with you. Nobody non-violent on either side of this issue has been arrested. However, I see supporters using the first amendment as a platform to argue with non-supporters. The first amendment means that somebody cannot be prosecuted for what they say or what message they try to send.