The Republican Utopia

[commando]

54 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I am trying my best to take my disdain for Tucker out of my thought process here and figure something out.  

Any logical person knows he is so full of BS with this line of thought.

 

So, what's his end game?  Why is he strategically trying to convince his audience of this?

 

 

Russia invading neighbors is good.   NATO is evil.   

[Guy Chamberlin]

4 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Well that’s a relief.  I’m glad we don’t have to put up with the other BS arguments like the race card, Medicare and social security this election cycle then.  

 

KInda. But when you're talking about Donald Trump and the crazies that have taken over the party, the part about racism and tearing down the social safety net is already baked in. 

 

But yes, there will be no intelligent discourse on the actual issues from either party. 

 

On balance, one party remains less insane, less traitorous, and more willing to advance policies favored by a majority of Americans. 

 

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

KInda. But when you're talking about Donald Trump and the crazies that have taken over the party, the part about racism and tearing down the social safety net is already baked in. 

 

But yes, there will be no intelligent discourse on the actual issues from either party. 

 

On balance, one party remains less insane, less traitorous, and more willing to advance policies favored by a majority of Americans. 

 

One party is about to get routed in 2022 because they have gone off the deep end policy wise 

 

Im surprised you find that Dems lying about racism lying about SS and lying about Medicare equals intelligent discourse.  Too each his own I guess

[Guy Chamberlin]

13 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

One party is about to get routed in 2022 because they have gone off the deep end policy wise 

 

Im surprised you find that Dems lying about racism lying about SS and lying about Medicare equals intelligent discourse.  Too each his own I guess

 

Again, the "deep end" is juiced up infrastructure spending that used to be considered fairly mainstream, and will actually pay dividends for the corporations and jobs providers. The "tax the rich" mantra that so troubles you merely seeks a return to tax rates of previous Democrat and Republican administrations that still allowed capitalists to become fantastically wealthy. Socialism?  Hardly.  

 

But yes, Democrats have lost the messaging battle. If they get routed, it will be by voters who would drink horse semen rather than get vaccinated, and literally believe that Democrats eat babies. It would be decent of you to stand up and repudiate your party, which to be honest has never advanced policy solutions of their own, and merely warned voters that Democrats want to turn American into Venezuela.  When they're done eating babies, of course. 

 

Do you believe there are racists in this country?

 

Ask them which party they're voting for. 

 

 

 

 

[Archy1221]

8 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Do you believe there are racists in this country?

Sure there are.  Seems like a silly question in regards to is that actually in dispute?   You have your white nationalists, black nationalists, segment of the Mexican American population.   They seem to vote for both parties or third parties or independent depending on what group they fall under.  That’s not in dispute either.  
 

is there a point you wished you were getting at?

[Archy1221]

12 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

If they get routed, it will be by voters who would drink horse semen rather than get vaccinated, and literally believe that Democrats eat babies. I

Are there really millions of voters that drink horse semen?  Any links to this?  Wouldn’t those voters have died from Covid by now.   One would likely assume the Dems have an advantage now by your fairy tail analysis.  But, they don’t. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

66% of Republicans still believe the election was stolen from Donald Trump

 

https://news.yahoo.com/poll-two-thirds-of-republicans-still-think-the-2020-election-was-rigged-165934695.html

 

Unvaccinated adults are three times more likely to be Republican

 

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/press-release/unvaccinated-adults-are-now-more-than-three-times-as-likely-to-lean-republican-than-democratic/

 

62% of people who identify as conservative believe at least one core QAnon conspiracy theory: 16% believe vaccines contain tracking chips, a percentage that could well be the margin of election:

 

https://thefulcrum.us/big-picture/qanon-conspiracy-theory

 

Are Americans who yearn to get back to a simpler time when white identify politics went unquestioned racist — consciously or otherwise?  Yeah. Probably. 

When America elected its first black President, and it spurred an unprecedented run on guns and ammunition, was that racist? I'm leaning yes. 

When self-described white supremacists choose to run as Republicans, is that racist? Again, I'd errr on the side of yes.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-identity-politics-drives-trump-and-the-republican-party-under-him/2019/07/16/a5ff5710-a733-11e9-a3a6-ab670962db05_story.html

 

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/9/17525860/nazis-russell-walker-arthur-jones-republicans-illinois-north-carolina-virginia

 

 

Isn't it all horse semen at this point, Archy? 

[B.B. Hemingway]

4 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

 

Are Americans who yearn to get back to a simpler time when white identify politics went unquestioned racist — consciously or otherwise?  Yeah. Probably. 

 

4 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Hard to argue with a lot of your post, but this deserves a little pushback. Longing for simpler times is hardly exclusive to white people, racist or not. There's also a significant difference in supporting politics that might be seen as self serving, and being a racist. There's nothing inherently racist about voting to protect your self interests. Is tribalism the same as racism?I don't think so, but would be willing to listen to an argument that says otherwise. Tribalism is baked into our DNA. Good luck ridding our world of that.

 

[Archy1221]

16 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Isn't it all horse semen at this point, Archy? 

No not really.  
 

16 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

When America elected its first black President, and it spurred an unprecedented run on guns and ammunition, was that racist? I'm leaning yes.

You don’t really know why there is a rush to buy more guns when a Democrat gets elected President then.   Hint…it has nothing to do with race.  
 

A simpler America does not really equate to a white America.   I can’t stress this enough, but it always comes down to race with you and your ilk.   Once you can get past the race card, your life will undoubtably be much better.   Just judge people for people. It’s enlightening.  

[Lorewarn]

50 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

There's nothing inherently racist about voting to protect your self interests. Is tribalism the same as racism?I don't think so, but would be willing to listen to an argument that says otherwise. Tribalism is baked into our DNA. Good luck ridding our world of that.

 

 

The line between the two is blurry and vague at best, imo.

 

Or at least it would behoove us to see it that way. If the only room you have in your definition of racism is explicit animosity and "I HATE ________", that's a very narrow scope that doesn't do much of anything to address the biggest and most impactful ways that people are subtly and indirectly discriminated against, intentional or not. 

 

And so there has been progress. But we must not allow this progress to cause us to engage in a superficial, dangerous optimism. The plant of freedom has grown only a bud and not yet a flower. And there is no area of our country that can boast of clean hands in the area of brotherhood. Every city confronts a serious problem. Now there are those who are trying to say now that the civil rights movement is dead. I submit to you that it is more alive today than ever before. What they fail to realize is that we are now in a transition period. We are moving into a new phase of the struggle. For well now twelve years, the struggle was basically a struggle to end legal segregation. In a sense it was a struggle for decency.

 

...

 

But that period is over now. And we are moving into a new phase.

And because we are moving into this new phase, some people feel that the civil rights movement is dead. The new phase is a struggle for genuine equality. It is not merely a struggle for decency now... It is now a struggle for genuine equality on all levels, and this will be a much more difficult struggle. You see, the gains in the first period, or the first era of struggle, were obtained from the power structure at bargain rates; it didn’t cost the nation anything to integrate lunch counters. It didn’t cost the nation anything to integrate hotels and motels. It didn’t cost the nation a penny to guarantee the right to vote. Now we are in a period where it will cost the nation billions of dollars to get rid of poverty, to get rid of slums, to make quality integrated education a reality. This is where we are now. Now we’re going to lose some friends in this period. The allies who were with us in Selma will not all stay with us during this period. We’ve got to understand what is happening. Now they often call this the white backlash … It’s just a new name for an old phenomenon. The fact is that there has never been any single, solid, determined commitment on the part of the vast majority of white Americans to genuine equality for Negroes. There has always been ambivalence … In 1863 the Negro was granted freedom from physical slavery through the Emancipation Proclamation. But he was not given land to make that freedom meaningful. At the same time, our government was giving away millions of acres of land in the Midwest and the West, which meant that the nation was willing to undergird its white peasants from Europe with an economic floor, while refusing to do it for its black peasants from Africa who were held in slavery two hundred and forty four years. And this is why Frederick Douglass would say that emancipation for the Negro was freedom to hunger, freedom to the winds and rains of heaven, freedom without roofs to cover their heads. It was freedom without bread to eat, without land to cultivate. It was freedom and famine at the same time. And it is a miracle that the Negro has survived.

 

- MLK

[NM11046]

1 hour ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Hard to argue with a lot of your post, but this deserves a little pushback. Longing for simpler times is hardly exclusive to white people, racist or not. There's also a significant difference in supporting politics that might be seen as self serving, and being a racist. There's nothing inherently racist about voting to protect your self interests. Is tribalism the same as racism?I don't think so, but would be willing to listen to an argument that says otherwise. Tribalism is baked into our DNA. Good luck ridding our world of that.

 

I may be speaking out of turn for Guy, but several of the larger, louder groups that are fighting tor return to "simpler times" have very specific nationalism messaging, including a return to more "family values", and they desire a return to the USA being primarily a white, Germanic, Roman, Greek and Western Europeon led country.  That any person that is not white is not equal.  Many base this on the founding fathers being that, and that anyone else was not who this country was built for.

 

There is a VERY strong undercurrent of white nationalism in many of the hate groups that are prevalent right now.  And it should be said before someone tries to belittle my comments that yes, these groups and opinions have been around for a long time.  But recent events have made their members more apt to speak out and be proud of their positions, and they are actively recruiting.  

[B.B. Hemingway]

21 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

I may be speaking out of turn for Guy, but several of the larger, louder groups that are fighting tor return to "simpler times" have very specific nationalism messaging, including a return to more "family values", and they desire a return to the USA being primarily a white, Germanic, Roman, Greek and Western Europeon led country.  That any person that is not white is not equal.  Many base this on the founding fathers being that, and that anyone else was not who this country was built for.

 

There is a VERY strong undercurrent of white nationalism in many of the hate groups that are prevalent right now.  And it should be said before someone tries to belittle my comments that yes, these groups and opinions have been around for a long time.  But recent events have made their members more apt to speak out and be proud of their positions, and they are actively recruiting.  

 

Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with "family values", or even wanting to be around people "like" you. It's something we're all guilty of. And people "like" you, doesn't even have to have anything to do with color. It can be anything from geographical ties, to similar careers. Somewhere along the way phrases like "family values" and "hard work" became buzzwords, which is hilariously ironic.

[Guy Chamberlin]

2 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Hard to argue with a lot of your post, but this deserves a little pushback. Longing for simpler times is hardly exclusive to white people, racist or not. There's also a significant difference in supporting politics that might be seen as self serving, and being a racist. There's nothing inherently racist about voting to protect your self interests. Is tribalism the same as racism?I don't think so, but would be willing to listen to an argument that says otherwise. Tribalism is baked into our DNA. Good luck ridding our world of that.

 

 

I would agree that tribalism is the more accurate word. It's everywhere and takes on many forms. Racism is a little more visible because it's color coded. 

 

About the "simpler time": the theme that the right leaning nationalists  have used so long and so well is that the dominant class in America (white, male, Christian) is having its power taken away by the Other (minorities, immigrants, gays, feminists, non-Christians). and thus America is losing its way.  There is a fair amount of racsim baked into that, and it's often a blinkered and inaccurate memory.  We forget that the "simpler time" was actually pretty horrible for a lot of people,.

 

Some Republicans even think that by accusing people of playing the race card, they can get out of any discussion involving race. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

2 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

 

Once you can get past the race card, your life will undoubtably be much better.   Just judge people for people. It’s enlightening.  

 

Would you rather be a white person or a black person in this country?

[NM11046]

38 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with "family values", or even wanting to be around people "like" you. It's something we're all guilty of. And people "like" you, doesn't even have to have anything to do with color. It can be anything from geographical ties, to similar careers. Somewhere along the way phrases like "family values" and "hard work" became buzzwords, which is hilariously ironic.

I disagree with nothing you've said here.   And you're a good man that probably says them with a mind to what you describe above.

 

But sad as it is, some innoculous terms have been hijacked and are used as (you say) buzzwords.  I would call them something more sinister as there are powerful people who have chosen them with a goal in mind, and they chose them so that they can easily claim that they were "misinterpreted" if they get called to the carpet on their messaging.