The Republican Utopia

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

In fairness to me and my ilk, several posters here have dismantled your arguments on any number of subjects without invoking race.  

Sure   

[NM11046]

I think, as a general rule, someone that accuses others of "throwing out the race card" and that all other people's discussions "come down to race" probably should be a little more introspective.

[B.B. Hemingway]

2 hours ago, NM11046 said:

I think, as a general rule, someone that accuses others of "throwing out the race card" and that all other people's discussions "come down to race" probably should be a little more introspective.

 

I would argue the need for being introspective could go both ways.

[Lorewarn]

4 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Is the argument really that Blacks must no longer fight institutional racism in America, only have themselves to blame for any disparities or single parent households, and just need to replicate the culture of those harder working Asians? 

 

And is there no massive longitudinal study that can convince you otherwise? 

 

 

This is how/where this conversation gets so difficult. It's not that there's nothing valuable or legitimate about the effects of cultures on the people inside of them, but... in the context of race-related issues it usually seems at least decently misguided.

 

One thing I think almost always missed in the "be responsible and work hard and you'll succeed" mantra is an acknowledgment of how easily certain groups can still succeed without being responsible and working hard compared to others. Another is why the primary onus and burden of responsibility should be focused on relatively powerless individuals and not on the large and infinitely more powerful entities who impact them. 

[B.B. Hemingway]

48 minutes ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

This is how/where this conversation gets so difficult. It's not that there's nothing valuable or legitimate about the effects of cultures on the people inside of them, but... in the context of race-related issues it usually seems at least decently misguided.

 

One thing I think almost always missed in the "be responsible and work hard and you'll succeed" mantra is an acknowledgment of how easily certain groups can still succeed without being responsible and working hard compared to others. Another is why the primary onus and burden of responsibility should be focused on relatively powerless individuals and not on the large and infinitely more powerful entities who impact them. 

 

Suggesting that any adult is "relatively powerless" when it comes to becoming a productive and successful individual is laughable at the very least, and probably offensive to those groups at it's worst.

.

[Lorewarn]

1 hour ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Suggesting that any adult is "relatively powerless" when it comes to becoming a productive and successful individual is laughable at the very least, and probably offensive to those groups at it's worst.

.

 

 

Not if you know what the word 'relatively' means, and see that what it's in relation to are things like the government of a country.

[Guy Chamberlin]

As I understand it, the main complaints about Critical Race Theory don't question the actual history, they're just saying it might make white kids feel uncomfortable.

 

The irony there is staggering. 

 

CRT is another dog whistle getting lots of play in GOP campaigns. 

[B.B. Hemingway]

54 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

As I understand it, the main complaints about Critical Race Theory don't question the actual history, they're just saying it might make white kids feel uncomfortable.

 

The irony there is staggering. 

 

CRT is another dog whistle getting lots of play in GOP campaigns. 

 

I'm okay with uncomfortable conversations, but are you suggesting that white children should be willing to feel guilt for past government and current culture failures?

[commando]

9 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

I'm okay with uncomfortable conversations, but are you suggesting that white children should be willing to feel guilt for past government and current culture failures?

the germans teach their kids about nazis.  do you think they shouldn't?

[B.B. Hemingway]

2 minutes ago, commando said:

the germans teach their kids about nazis.  do you think they shouldn't?

 

Probably a good idea. But, I think you know I'm not suggesting we don't teach about slavery or the civil rights movement in the 60s etc.

[commando]

1 minute ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Probably a good idea. But, I think you know I'm not suggesting we don't teach about slavery or the civil rights movement in the 60s etc.

i guess it's good thing CRT is more a study about the racists laws than a study about slavery  or civil rights.    

[B.B. Hemingway]

1 minute ago, commando said:

i guess it's good thing CRT is more a study about the racists laws than a study about slavery  or civil rights.    

 

I was speaking to your Nazi/Germany example. I gave you the closest American equivalent to it. Are you suggesting the alleged, modern plight of black people is comparable to what the Jews faced in Nazi Germany?

 

 

 

[commando]

2 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

I was speaking to your Nazi/Germany example. I gave you the closest American equivalent to it. Are you suggesting the alleged, modern plight of black people is comparable to what the Jews faced in Nazi Germany?

 

 

 

you said that teaching CRT would hurt little kids feelings.    i suggested that teaching german kids about the nazis might hurt their feelings also.   but the germans still do it because it's vital to teach about the past so we can learn from it.     

[B.B. Hemingway]

2 minutes ago, commando said:

you said that teaching CRT would hurt little kids feelings.    i suggested that teaching german kids about the nazis might hurt their feelings also.   but the germans still do it because it's vital to teach about the past so we can learn from it.     

 

I didn't say that, but yeah, teach kids all they want about the impact slavery had on our country, and past civil rights violations. That's great. We learned all about that 20 years ago when I was in high school. I'm glad we're on the same page.

[Guy Chamberlin]

42 minutes ago, commando said:

the germans teach their kids about nazis.  do you think they shouldn't?

 

Well it did take a few decades for Germany to address this in their schools. 

 

Probably a similar case of "why can't we move on?" because the conversation was rather awkward.