ZRod Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said: And then he walked it back. Mueller had already promised he would not say anything new (ya know stuff that would put him in legal trouble) and he followed through. To be fair he didn't walk it back all the way. He simply said that the President could be charged once out of office, but that due to the OLC the special counsel never considered charging the president. Extrapolating from that, Mueller never once ever said that there was insufficient evidence to charge Trump with obstruction were he not the president, and he's pretty clearly said that was not able to exonerate him. 2 Link to comment
Ulty Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 11 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said: It's okay, sounds like Mueller wasn't sure what was in his report either. oh and, Wait a minute, the president that you support is a criminal, and you come to boast about it because...why? Because the Dems didn't get the solid gold soundbite they wanted? Do you have an actual take about Mueller's investigation? Link to comment
QMany Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Frankly, it is a complex and lengthy report because Trump and his campaign did so much coordinating/meeting with Russia and so much Obstruction. 1 1 Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1821272001 I think everyone is going to end up disappointed by the results of this testimony which looks like won't be mich of anything. Views weren't changed, the House won't begin impeachment and I think this will be considered a tired issue by the time election rolls around. It shouldn't be this way but I think bringing up the Mueller report a year from now isn't going to be terribly helpful. Maybe I'm just being pessamistic but I think Congress blew their chance with this thing and should have impeached already. I think hammering him on it during the campaign season will be met with responses of 'well if I did something wrong, why wasn't I punished?' Trumps base already thinks he 'won' yesterday, how will they feel a year removed from it all with no reprecussions that came from it? 1 Link to comment
TGHusker Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 11 hours ago, QMany said: Yes that is a campaign ad in the nutshell. It would be great if some non-partisan PAC would pick it up and run with it. Link to comment
ZRod Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said: https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1821272001 I think everyone is going to end up disappointed by the results of this testimony which looks like won't be mich of anything. Views weren't changed, the House won't begin impeachment and I think this will be considered a tired issue by the time election rolls around. It shouldn't be this way but I think bringing up the Mueller report a year from now isn't going to be terribly helpful. Maybe I'm just being pessamistic but I think Congress blew their chance with this thing and should have impeached already. I think hammering him on it during the campaign season will be met with responses of 'well if I did something wrong, why wasn't I punished?' Trumps base already thinks he 'won' yesterday, how will they feel a year removed from it all with no reprecussions that came from it? This has to be the first step, although it should have been done months ago. Now they either need to subpoena witnesses from the report to testify before the committees in public, or proceed with impeachment so that they can subpoena everyone and anyone. Ultimately if they pursue impeachment they need to put Trump under oath, because he would lose and lose hard. 2 Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, ZRod said: This has to be the first step, although it should have been done months ago. Now they either need to subpoena witnesses from the report to testify before the committees in public, or proceed with impeachment so that they can subpoena everyone and anyone. Ultimately if they pursue impeachment they need to put Trump under oath, because he would lose and lose hard. I agree completely, but from what I'm reading they will not be pursuing impeachment. My question if they bring more witnesses in but not impeach is what is this for? To get soundbytes to play on the campaign? I don't like that as I've said over and over. I think that idea will backfire on them. I really think they should go forward with impeachment but at this point that doesn't look likely. Link to comment
ZRod Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said: I agree completely, but from what I'm reading they will not be pursuing impeachment. My question if they bring more witnesses in but not impeach is what is this for? To get soundbytes to play on the campaign? I don't like that as I've said over and over. I think that idea will backfire on them. I really think they should go forward with impeachment but at this point that doesn't look likely. First and foremost to sway the American Public's opinion. They probably do need to go straight to impeachment, which they will get, but they will never convict in the Senate. So, what's the point? 1 Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 minute ago, ZRod said: First and foremost to sway the American Public's opinion. They probably do need to go straight to impeachment, which they will get, but they will never convict in the Senate. So, what's the point? I guess I don't see anything swaying public opinion more than Trump under oath and I also think its important for precendents sake. Either way they will spin it as Trump beat the case though. Either they investigated him and found nothing or they tried to impeach him and couldn't convict because there was nothing there. That will be the line he feeds his base when the democratic candidate tries to hammer him on this. It's quite disturbing to think Trump might get 4 more years despite all of the brazen criminal activity but thats where we are at right now unfortunately. Link to comment
Ulty Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, ZRod said: First and foremost to sway the American Public's opinion. They probably do need to go straight to impeachment, which they will get, but they will never convict in the Senate. So, what's the point? Trump's legacy after he is gone from the presidency is going to be garbage. When he is no longer protected by the privileges of the office, he will likely (hopefully) be buried by criminal charges, lawsuits, and the weight of history. Once he's gone, current Republicans will try to distance themselves from the stain of the Trump era as much as possible so they can fit whatever narratives suits them in the future, so those Republicans can preserve their own standing. If Trump is impeached, any Republican who votes to let him off will have to live with the stain of that vote, and maybe Trump's horrible legacy will take down some of those Republicans. The Democrats' failure to impeach will only empower future Republicans to claim that they could have voted to impeach Trump but never got the chance (even if we know it is BS, we also know that a lot of voters will fall for that), and will empower future corrupt politicians of all stripes to bend boundaries and break the law, knowing that there is no accountability. Impeachment needs to happen. 1 1 Link to comment
QMany Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Yesterday: "They're doing it as we sit here," Mueller told lawmakers of Russian interference. Today: #MuellerHearingDisaster and #ClintonBodyCount trending on Twitter. Since 2016: Trump and McConnell have done nothing to protect our elections. 1 Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, QMany said: Yesterday: "They're doing it as we sit here," Mueller told lawmakers of Russian interference. Today: #MuellerHearingDisaster and #ClintonBodyCount trending on Twitter. Since 2016: Trump and McConnell have done nothing to protect our elections. Why would they do anything to protect our elections when interference is benefitting them? Link to comment
ZRod Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 37 minutes ago, QMany said: Yesterday: "They're doing it as we sit here," Mueller told lawmakers of Russian interference. Today: #MuellerHearingDisaster and #ClintonBodyCount trending on Twitter. Since 2016: Trump and McConnell have done nothing to protect our elections. Making fun of Mueller's hearing is pretty disrespectful. The dude is a decorated combat veteran. Anyone who has spent time in the military is more than likely going to have hearing issues. My grandfather had horrible hearing after serving in the Pacific Theater. My dad never saw combat while in the army, but he has tinnitus and wears hearing aids. Bringing the hearing issue up really pisses me off. They should have got him earphones... Link to comment
QMany Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 19 minutes ago, ZRod said: Making fun of Mueller's hearing is pretty disrespectful. The dude is a decorated combat veteran. Anyone who has spent time in the military is more than likely going to have hearing issues. My grandfather had horrible hearing after serving in the Pacific Theater. My dad never saw combat while in the army, but he has tinnitus and wears hearing aids. Bringing the hearing issue up really pisses me off. They should have got him earphones... I don't think they meant hearing as in ears, but instead Congressional hearing. Link to comment
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