The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[BigRedBuster]

3 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

Gotta also love how the spouse of one of Trump's top advisors and his republican group endorsed Biden. How does that marriage work.

It's even a weirder marriage than James Carville and Mary Mataline during the 1992 campaign.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

 

Oh, back to the narrative of the angry Bernie Bro eh?  Jesus will you people stop with this stupidity?

 

Bernie's movement HAS moved on without him.  They are tied to policy...not an individual.  Unlike Trumps movement which is tied specifically to him.

 

I think you're building up a straw man narrative about Bernie supporters so you can swing at it and attack it.  Its just not true at all.

 

Yeah, Bernie followers were accused of being a cult because they followed him in lockstep.

 

And when they fall out of lockstep, they're accused of being in a cult. 

 

And when they said they'd still vote for Biden, while trying to influence the platform, they're still treated with skepticism. 

 

Again. It's early.

 

If you think Bernie Sanders represented a movement, and you were just asked to fall in line for Joe Biden, you should be granted a bit more time to "get over it."  

 

I don't think it's too much to ask that Biden supporters make an enthusiastic case for their candidate, generate grassroots support and fundraising, and start phone banking to make his victory possible. 

 

There's a good chance I'll join them in a couple months. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

15 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

It's even a weirder marriage than James Carville and Mary Mataline during the 1992 campaign.  

 

You talking about George & Kellyanne Conway? Or another weird marriage? 

[Moiraine]

53 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

Gotta also love how the spouse of one of Trump's top advisors and his republican group endorsed Biden. How does that marriage work.

 

 

Based on my experience they either don’t talk about it or enjoy arguing.

[Danny Bateman]

11 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Based on my experience they either don’t talk about it or enjoy arguing.

Not to be vulgar but the term hate-f### comes to mind. 

 

Edit: With the Conways! Didn't mean to imply you.

[Danny Bateman]

3 hours ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

He's posted videos with Krystal Ball in the past. This is the far left's version of fox and friends. They've ran hit pieces on Elizabeth Warren for not being left enough. Not to mention Ball is a known grifter - she started a PAC in which she paid herself $174,000 and during that same span $22,000 went to support the actual candidates. Far from the most trustworthy of news sources, I'm sure the people who get their news from there are pretty culty. 

 

I said this last night but I think the rise in popularity of progressive alt-media sources is part of the reason some on the left are having a hard time coming around on Biden.

 

If that's all people are consuming it's going to make them miserable about voting for Biden. Those news sources are never going to come around on him because their business model relies on them being critical of him.

[RedDenver]

Man, this thread has exploded over the last few hours.

 

4 hours ago, knapplc said:

I'm just ready to talk about Bernie as much as we talk about Buttigieg, Warren and O'Rourke in this thread.

 

Bernie dropped out a week ago and he's still being brought up. Probably time to make a new Bernie thread and focus on the candidates who are still running.

Bernie has more supporters and delegates than those candidates combined. If Bernie supporters were a small number, then there wouldn't be all the angst about whether or not they'll vote for Biden.

 

But if we want to move on, then we should probably just start a general election thread instead of trying to turn the Dem primary thread into the general election thread.

 

4 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

It's neither a logical fallacy, nor a given. Like a lot of stuff, it's conditional. If you were among the people who reluctantly voted for Hillary Clinton rather than Jill Stein in 2016, but have decided not to support the Democratic nominee this year, you are reducing Joe Biden's margin of error and helping Donald Trump. If you are in a solid blue state or have no history of voting Democratic, your third party vote likely won't change a thing.  So it may not be as black and white as I suggested, but unless your third party vote pulls from the pool of non-voters or previous Trump supporters (it's possible), it works in Trump's favor. 

Can we just put this illogical nonsense to bed? Not voting doesn't help any candidate win.

[commando]

5 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

 

 

Can we just put this illogical nonsense to bed? Not voting doesn't help any candidate win.

it's that darn ole crazy bernie saying that

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bernie-supporters-irresponsible-oppose-joe-biden_n_5e964b2ac5b65eae709bd0b4

 

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Tuesday that it would be “irresponsible” for his strongest supporters not to get behind former Vice President Joe Biden in the 2020 presidential race.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Sanders warned that progressives who “sit on their hands” in the months ahead of the November vote would just be enabling President Donald Trump’s reelection.

 

 

[RedDenver]

2 minutes ago, commando said:

it's that darn ole crazy bernie saying that

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bernie-supporters-irresponsible-oppose-joe-biden_n_5e964b2ac5b65eae709bd0b4

 

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Tuesday that it would be “irresponsible” for his strongest supporters not to get behind former Vice President Joe Biden in the 2020 presidential race.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Sanders warned that progressives who “sit on their hands” in the months ahead of the November vote would just be enabling President Donald Trump’s reelection.

 

 

If you listen to what Bernie actually said (instead of the Huff Post's summary), he says that his supporters need to vote for Biden in order to defeat Trump, which is logically correct. But even if Bernie said not voting is a vote for Trump, he'd be wrong.

[Danny Bateman]

21 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Can we just put this illogical nonsense to bed? Not voting doesn't help any candidate win.

 

Don't progressives always say they win with massive turnout?

 

Why just last week Republicans attempted to protect a state supreme court seat in Wisconsin - through low turnout.

[RedDenver]

9 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

Don't progressives always say they win with massive turnout?

 

Why just last week Republicans attempted to protect a state supreme court seat in Wisconsin - through low turnout.

Ok, you guys have convinced me. Anything other than a vote for Biden is a vote for Trump. So this Nov. we'll count Biden's votes for Biden and all the Trump votes, third party votes, and non-votes for Trump. But I don't want any complaining because this is what you've claimed is the truth.

 

And if we go back to 2016, then Hillary actually lost the popular vote in a landslide victory for Trump. I haven't done a detailed count of every state, but looks like Trump actually won every state in the biggest electoral win in history.

 

[BigRedBuster]

2 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

You talking about George & Kellyanne Conway? Or another weird marriage? 

You need to research James and Mary. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

Man, this thread has exploded over the last few hours.

 

Bernie has more supporters and delegates than those candidates combined. If Bernie supporters were a small number, then there wouldn't be all the angst about whether or not they'll vote for Biden.

 

But if we want to move on, then we should probably just start a general election thread instead of trying to turn the Dem primary thread into the general election thread.

 

Can we just put this illogical nonsense to bed? Not voting doesn't help any candidate win.

 

Mmmmmaybe. I think there's a small but potentially significant number of Republicans who feel queasy voting for Trump, but can't bring themselves to vote for a Dem. Given anonymity, these people might choose not to vote at all. That would help Biden.

[RedDenver]

1 minute ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Mmmmmaybe. I think there's a small but potentially significant number of Republicans who feel queasy voting for Trump, but can't bring themselves to vote for a Dem. Given anonymity, these people might choose not to vote at all. That would help Biden.

I'm sorry, but I've been told repeatedly not voting is a vote for Trump, which hurts Biden.

[Danny Bateman]

15 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Ok, you guys have convinced me. Anything other than a vote for Biden is a vote for Trump. So this Nov. we'll count Biden's votes for Biden and all the Trump votes, third party votes, and non-votes for Trump. But I don't want any complaining because this is what you've claimed is the truth.

 

And if we go back to 2016, then Hillary actually lost the popular vote in a landslide victory for Trump. I haven't done a detailed count of every state, but looks like Trump actually won every state in the biggest electoral win in history.

 

 

I understand the disdain for Biden in some progressive circles but if there was ever an election to get all philosophical about the difference between a vote for Trump's opponent vs. a third party, it ain't this one. Lots of people recognize that. 

 

For as much as progressives universally detest the Iraq War and crave real action for climate change, I'd think they'd have already learned this lesson with 2000 and Nader.