Puerto Rico

[ZRod]

36 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Dude. Read the thread. The conversation played out and I'm not going to relitigate it here.

I read it. Everyone jumped down his throat for a simple throw away comment. And then when he agreed with everyone on their criticisms the dog pile continued. 

[StPaulHusker]

1 hour ago, ZRod said:

Jesus Christ guys, relax. @jaws is simply saying it's not as easy to get assistance to PR. You can't just park ships off the coast when a hurricane is moving through... He didn't comment on the quality or timeliness of the response, just that it isn't apples to apples when it's not on the mainland. Maybe we should compare the response to the Earth quaks in Haiti and the hurricane in PR and remember that the people in PR are US citizens deserving the government's full support.

And I'm saying that this inept dumpster fire of a presidency chose to not make the response easy.

 

Change my mind

 

[knapplc]

8 minutes ago, jaws said:

 

Then get a job with FEMA. They obviously take care of everything when it comes to a natural disasters and don't need the help of other organizations and local governments. 

 

[ZRod]

21 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

And I'm saying that this inept dumpster fire of a presidency chose to not make the response easy.

 

Change my mind

 

No one is trying to change your mind, that's the thing.

[TGHusker]

5 hours ago, schriznoeder said:

 

Agree 100%    Narcissistic child in the White House.

[VectorVictor]

19 hours ago, TGHusker said:

Agree 100%    Narcissistic child in the White House.

 

My wife teaches narcissistic children. Trump's antics make narcissistic children look well-adjusted and selfless. 

[Landlord]

23 hours ago, jaws said:

This is the last time I comment about bottle water sitting on a runway. Obviously I have no knowledge or background in the difficulties of providing assistance to people on an island in the Caribbean. 

 

I appreciate your input and nuance.

 

 

23 hours ago, knapplc said:

If that's all he's saying he spent a lot of time saying it.

 

Only because nobody seemed to actually listen to what he said.

 

 

23 hours ago, knapplc said:

And if that's the entirety of his point, it's moot, because we could have gotten assistance to Puerto Rico reasonably easily if we had actually planned to do it.

 

Not as easily as other mainland places.

 

 

23 hours ago, knapplc said:

I have no idea why it's controversial to say that the response was s#!te and to hold the administration accountable for that.

 

That's not controversial. Nobody here thinks that is controversial.

 

 

22 hours ago, StPaulHusker said:

And I'm saying that this inept dumpster fire of a presidency chose to not make the response easy.

 

I think everybody agrees with you.

 

 

 

 

 

[DevoHusker]

https://nypost.com/2018/09/13/millions-of-water-bottles-left-in-puerto-rico-were-excess-supplies-fema/

 

 

[RedDenver]

On 9/13/2018 at 12:44 PM, ZRod said:

Did anybody here say it was controversial or that the criticism was unwarranted? I don't see why it's so controversial to point out that it's a little more difficult to get relief to an Island, and realize that it still doesn't absolve anyone of doing an all around s#!tty job.

Why does everyone think getting supplies to an island is difficult? Shipping is about as easy as it gets for hauling large volumes of cargo. If the ships were already loaded, they could have been unloading literally a few hours after the hurricane passed.

[ZRod]

8 hours ago, RedDenver said:

Why does everyone think getting supplies to an island is difficult? Shipping is about as easy as it gets for hauling large volumes of cargo. If the ships were already loaded, they could have been unloading literally a few hours after the hurricane passed.

You're not going to park ships anywhere near a hurricanes potential path(s), so hours are more like days. You could fly cargo in within hours, but that assumes the airport is operational at that time.

[RedDenver]

14 hours ago, ZRod said:

You're not going to park ships anywhere near a hurricanes potential path(s), so hours are more like days. You could fly cargo in within hours, but that assumes the airport is operational at that time.

A ship can move, so it doesn't have to sit in the path of the storm - that'd be dumb. Hurricane paths are well-known. Modern ships have all the same access to weather and storm tracks as anyone does on land, so the ships can just follow along behind the storm and arrive hours after the storm has passed. 

[ZRod]

They would do what now? Come in from the Pacific? It's more difficult with an island, I think we can all agree. That doesn't excuse the piss poor response in totality though.

 

[RedDenver]

15 hours ago, ZRod said:

They would do what now? Come in from the Pacific? It's more difficult with an island, I think we can all agree. That doesn't excuse the piss poor response in totality though.

 

What? Do you have any idea how much space there is between and around those storms? Look at the states and then superimpose them onto the water around the hurricanes if you're having trouble

 

Cargo ships typically move about 15-30 mph (the faster speeds are more costly for fuel use but would certainly be used to keep clear of a hurricane). Hurricanes typically move about 15-20 mph (fastest recorded is still only 60 mph). Plus ships are capable of riding out severe storms at sea; only the center of Cat 3+ pose real danger to a ship (typically 25 miles across for Cat 3 up to 150 miles across for Cat 5). All in all it's not that difficult to travel around a hurricane and then follow it. Plus cargo ships can haul massive amounts, so I don't agree that supplying an island is more difficult - I'd argue it's actually easier.

[ZRod]

1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

What? Do you have any idea how much space there is between and around those storms? Look at the states and then superimpose them onto the water around the hurricanes if you're having trouble

 

Cargo ships typically move about 15-30 mph (the faster speeds are more costly for fuel use but would certainly be used to keep clear of a hurricane). Hurricanes typically move about 15-20 mph (fastest recorded is still only 60 mph). Plus ships are capable of riding out severe storms at sea; only the center of Cat 3+ pose real danger to a ship (typically 25 miles across for Cat 3 up to 150 miles across for Cat 5). All in all it's not that difficult to travel around a hurricane and then follow it. Plus cargo ships can haul massive amounts, so I don't agree that supplying an island is more difficult - I'd argue it's actually easier.

Sorry, you're always right about everything. And your logic is flawless. Why didn't I ever consider it a smart option to have cargo ships with supplies try to dodge 2 hurricanes 

 

 

[RedDenver]

3 hours ago, ZRod said:

Sorry, you're always right about everything. And your logic is flawless. Why didn't I ever consider it a smart option to have cargo ships with supplies try to dodge 2 hurricanes 

 

 

Poor attempt at dodging.

 

Here's an entire article about it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/09/26/the-very-big-ocean-between-here-and-puerto-rico-is-not-a-perfect-excuse-for-a-lack-of-aid/?utm_term=.25df43dbf82d
 

Quote

Our government supply ships, of course, would not feel the pinch of needing to stick to a schedule and could presumably wait out the storm in a safe location nearby.

 

Many ships did just that as Maria approached.

 

In fact, our Dan Lamothe notes, this is precisely what two U.S. Navy vessels already in the area did. The USS Kearsarge and the USS Oak Hill, nearby to assist with relief from Irma, moved south to avoid the direct path of Maria and then returned to provide assistance to Puerto Rico.