On July 4th, Republican lawmakers went to Moscow

[knapplc]

 

Quote

 

Republican lawmakers come to Moscow

 

MOSCOW — Republican members of Congress sounded a newly conciliatory tone in meetings with Russian lawmakers and officials here on Tuesday in a rare visit to Moscow and a preview of the looming summit between President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

 

Sen. Richard C. Shelby (R-Ala.) told Russia’s foreign minister that while Russia and the United States were competitors, “we don’t necessarily need to be adversaries.” Later on at the State Duma, the lower house of parliament, members attending a plenary session greeted the Americans with applause.

 

“I’m not here today to accuse Russia of this or that or so forth,” Shelby told Duma speaker Vyacheslav Volodin. “I’m saying that we should all strive for a better relationship.” 

 

 

 

 

How do you rationalize this?

 

@TonyStalloni @Dewiz @TheSker

 

@GM_Tood @teachercd @HuskerNation1 @84HuskerLaw

 

[TonyStalloni]

You want them to walk into Moscow and sing the line from old Santana song "You've got to change your evil ways...baby.  Before I stop loving you.  You've got to change....baby. Every word that I say is true.  You got me running and hiding all over town. You got me sneaking and peepin and runnin around.  This can't go on..... Lord knows you got to change."  Do you think they walked in with a brief case holding all the government secrets (that they don't already know)?
 

[Moiraine]

20 minutes ago, TonyStalloni said:

You want them to walk into Moscow and sing the line from old Santana song "You've got to change your evil ways...baby.  Before I stop loving you.  You've got to change....baby. Every word that I say is true.  You got me running and hiding all over town. You got me sneaking and peepin and runnin around.  This can't go on..... Lord knows you got to change."  Do you think they walked in with a brief case holding all the government secrets (that they don't already know)?
 

 

 

Apparently you think they should sing Kumbaya. You know they didn't have to even go there, correct?

 

Russia invaded Ukraine. 3,000 civilians were killed in the War in Donbass alone. That's many more than terrorists have killed in all of Europe. They also helped/continue to help Syria who kills civilians with chemical weapons. And please don't lie to yourself by pretending Trump hasn't been talking about how great Putin is since the campaign. He's a fan. He's said it's okay they took Crimea because they speak Russian. He also says he won't rule out their annexation of Crimea. He and the Republicans don't have to suck up to the guy to prevent a war with them. Trump didn't even want to use sanctions against them. Stop rationalizing these actions.

[JJ Husker]

Devil's Advocate....

 

But we were supposed to embrace Obama making nicey nice with Iran and blindly trusting they were not continuing to pursue weaponized uranium enrichment?

 

Ya know, not absolutely everything has to be viewed in the worst possible light. Sure, US congressmen going to Moscow on July 4th can be sensationalized and painted in a poor light. But if they had stuck around Washington and took it easy somebody would be complaining they were doing nothing, probably golfing on the tax payers dime. Yeah, the whole Russia/Putin thing is sensitive for obvious reasons but I can think of worse things than the US and Russia having better relations. Surely no one thinks the Dems would participate or work with repubs nowaday so it stands to reason why it was only republicans. This worst possible motives approach to absolutely everything repubs or Trump does gets a bit old. Isn't there plenty of actual bad stuff they're doing to keep people occupied? I guess that's why I prefer to avoid all news and this P&R forum anymore. If a republican saved a baby from dying, I'm sure it would get spun as some horrible act by the usual suspects.

[knapplc]

6 hours ago, Comfortably Numb said:

Devil's Advocate....

 

But we were supposed to embrace Obama making nicey nice with Iran and blindly trusting they were not continuing to pursue weaponized uranium enrichment?

 

Ya know, not absolutely everything has to be viewed in the worst possible light. Sure, US congressmen going to Moscow on July 4th can be sensationalized and painted in a poor light. But if they had stuck around Washington and took it easy somebody would be complaining they were doing nothing, probably golfing on the tax payers dime. Yeah, the whole Russia/Putin thing is sensitive for obvious reasons but I can think of worse things than the US and Russia having better relations. Surely no one thinks the Dems would participate or work with repubs nowaday so it stands to reason why it was only republicans. This worst possible motives approach to absolutely everything repubs or Trump does gets a bit old. Isn't there plenty of actual bad stuff they're doing to keep people occupied? I guess that's why I prefer to avoid all news and this P&R forum anymore. If a republican saved a baby from dying, I'm sure it would get spun as some horrible act by the usual suspects.

 

This is the rationalization I was expecting.  "But Obama..." and "what were they supposed to do..."

 

Wake.

Up.

[commando]

tRUmp...tough on our allies and friendly with dictators.   and there is certainly a part of the GOP that is fine with that.   Putin is happier than a pig in s#!t with tRUmp right now.

[commando]

FWIW...tRUmp is going to green light the massive russian immigration into crimea.   that will let him end the sanctions on russia that he won't enforce anyway.

[knapplc]

Serious question - what would it take to make you think there may be something wrong with this scenario, JJ?

[Moiraine]

7 hours ago, Comfortably Numb said:

Devil's Advocate....

 

But we were supposed to embrace Obama making nicey nice with Iran and blindly trusting they were not continuing to pursue weaponized uranium enrichment?

 

Ya know, not absolutely everything has to be viewed in the worst possible light. Sure, US congressmen going to Moscow on July 4th can be sensationalized and painted in a poor light. But if they had stuck around Washington and took it easy somebody would be complaining they were doing nothing, probably golfing on the tax payers dime. Yeah, the whole Russia/Putin thing is sensitive for obvious reasons but I can think of worse things than the US and Russia having better relations. Surely no one thinks the Dems would participate or work with repubs nowaday so it stands to reason why it was only republicans. This worst possible motives approach to absolutely everything repubs or Trump does gets a bit old. Isn't there plenty of actual bad stuff they're doing to keep people occupied? I guess that's why I prefer to avoid all news and this P&R forum anymore. If a republican saved a baby from dying, I'm sure it would get spun as some horrible act by the usual suspects.

 

 

 

The Iran deal is a pretty awful comparison. The Iran deal is what Trump should have tried to do with North Korea. There were several other countries on board with it and there was/is monitoring of whether they're keeping up the bargain. Iran gave up a s#!t ton in that deal so they could earn something in return. I implore you to read about it in detail if you haven't already.

 

On the converse, Trump and some of his Republican cohorts are making it clear they don't want Russia to give up anything or be sanctioned or punished in any way for their actions. Trump has made it clear he doesn't really have a problem with these actions. Russia is basically being rewarded for killing people and trying to influence our election. If Russia wants good relations with U.S. they should pay a price for what they've done, including meddling in the election. Not be rewarded.

 

If you think this is a "Trump did it so it's bad" issue I dunno what to tell you. His relationship and treatment of Russia is at best completely ignorant, stupid, and likely dangerous. It's one of the most important things we should be concerned about right now. 

[JJ Husker]

1 hour ago, knapplc said:

Serious question - what would it take to make you think there may be something wrong with this scenario, JJ?

 

My point was simply that I am extremely tired of the incessant complaining about every breath these guys take. I am so numb to it that I no longer even consider if there is anything really wrong with any of it. I expect certain people to make a mountain out of a molehill and I expect others to sweep any real indiscretion under the rug. I'm just so effing tired and fed up with all of it.

 

As far as specifically what I see wrong in this case.....nothing....yet. US republican Congress members went to Russia. Other than that we're just recycling old stories. The election meddling, Putin's a monster, Crimea, Trump and Russia, everything republican. As far as I know there is no new wrong doing by anyone.....yet. And I can appreciate Moiraine's point that we shouldn't be treating Russia and Putin as well as this administration seems to be. But I'm just so frikken tired of hearing about all of it, a Congress junket to Russia just doesn't get me bothered. Maybe I'm just lazy or have real things in my own life that interest me much more? I probably just shouldn't venture into this forum anymore.

[knapplc]

Just now, Comfortably Numb said:

My point was simply that I am extremely tired of the incessant complaining about every breath these guys take.

 

 Why do you complain that someone is mad that the bank is robbed, rather than being mad at the bank robbers?

[JJ Husker]

4 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

 Why do you complain that someone is mad that the bank is robbed, rather than being mad at the bank robbers?

Trying to answer within the confines of the poor analogy...because that's what bank robbers do, they rob banks, it doesn't surprise me. Heck, I can avoid even knowing the bank was robbed...unless and until I venture into the HB P&R forum. Maybe I should be happy that there are still some in this country that care what our leaders do and expect them to do the right things. But the realist in me knows expecting anything other than the worst from any politician, anyone who associates with an R or D behind their name, is a complete waste of time. They've all found bottom and are digging for new lows. It's not news. It's exactly what I expect.

[knapplc]

Just now, Comfortably Numb said:

Trying to answer within the confines of the poor analogy...because that's what bank robbers do, they rob banks, it doesn't surprise me. Heck, I can avoid even knowing the bank was robbed...unless and until I venture into the HB P&R forum. Maybe I should be happy that there are still some in this country that care what our leaders do and expect them to do the right things. But the realist in me knows expecting anything other than the worst from any politician, anyone who associates with an R or D behind their name, is a complete waste of time. They've all found bottom and are digging for new lows. It's not news. It's exactly what I expect.

 

So you're on the side of the robbers. If not explicitly, then implicitly.  You'd rather let the robbers rob - because that's what robbers do - and not be bothered to hear about it. 

 

That makes sense.  Thanks for clearing that up.  Good luck to your bank account!

[JJ Husker]

1 hour ago, knapplc said:

 

So you're on the side of the robbers. If not explicitly, then implicitly.  You'd rather let the robbers rob - because that's what robbers do - and not be bothered to hear about it. 

 

That makes sense.  Thanks for clearing that up.  Good luck to your bank account!

You're welcome.

[Fru]