Speed City

[ColoradoHusk]

11 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

I think he means short fast elusive guys. But ya I’ve never heard that before.

Waterbug has been used as a term for small, quick, fast, elusive guys which are hard to catch.  Waterbugs tend to skim across the water in short, fast movements.

[ZRod]

1 hour ago, DefenderAO said:

With the changing landscape of strength and conditioning, separating from the pack in strength alone will be impossible.  

 

Similar concept...NU was running an offense no one else really did in the 90's - option football.  Our problem was speed up until the 90's.  When we recruited real athletes around the muscle, we were set apart.

 

Year-over-year top schools in the country:

 

Tier 1 - Bama and Clemson

Tier 2 - Georgia, Oklahoma, OSU

 

No Tier 1 and 2 team plays fast; they're mostly pro-style offenses.  All have shown they can recruit stoutly near the lines except for OU's weaker defenses.  

 

My point - NU would be a set-apart offensive style in this group, and if we can hold our own with the big boys at the line, the Oregon pace and athlete style would make us vastly different.  If Oregon had parity at the lines against LSU and Auburn in recent past, I think they win at least one of those games and the OSU NC game is closer.

 

Watch Scott's pressers.  Look at the offers.  Big, long athletes everywhere.  Get them with Duval to bulk.  Throw in a couple waterbeds (Robinson <-> De'Anthony 
Thomas), play at lightning pace...throw in our tradition and legacy to boot.  Who else has all of this?  It's Scott's angle to be different and get back to Tier 1.

 

The one place I'm not fully sold is the defensive priority for turnovers.  I'd rather see stops.  I don't want to sit through an interview at the end of a game and complain "we just couldn't get the ball back."  We need stops.  3rd and 2...no gain (hell, we'd take 3rd and 12 stops at this point).  Disciplined teams can keep the ball.  I don't want to give up 495 yards and grab the ball three times to have to call it a defensive success.

Ok, OU played a fast paced spread no huddle under Stoops. tOSU was a faster spread no huddle offense as well, and they could really turn the burners on if they caught you in a bad matchup. Bama has adapted to a no huddle spread offense, but not at a fast tempo. Everyone is running no huddle these days but it's more of the Mangino, get to the line, and check-with-me style (which I hated until Beck ran it).That being said I don't think anyone runs it at the breakneck speed Frost wants.

[DefenderAO]

25 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

 

I used to own a waterbed.  I know what waterbugs are.

 

I'm struggling to figure out what they mean here.

Waterbug, yes. iPhone autocorrect got me. I edited above 

[DefenderAO]

9 minutes ago, ZRod said:

Ok, OU played a fast paced spread no huddle under Stoops. tOSU was a faster spread no huddle offense as well, and they could really turn the burners on if they caught you in a bad matchup. Bama has adapted to a no huddle spread offense, but not at a fast tempo. Everyone is running no huddle these days but it's more of the Mangino, get to the line, and check-with-me style (which I hated until Beck ran it).That being said I don't think anyone runs it at the breakneck speed Frost wants.

 

All those five teams have elements of what Frost wants. OU doesn’t play D with physicality like Frost wants. Bama and Clemson don’t pace as fast as Scott wants. 

 

He’s scheming in a differentiated way and recruiting for that approach. 

[Huskers93-97]

8 minutes ago, ZRod said:

Ok, OU played a fast paced spread no huddle under Stoops. tOSU was a faster spread no huddle offense as well, and they could really turn the burners on if they caught you in a bad matchup. Bama has adapted to a no huddle spread offense, but not at a fast tempo. Everyone is running no huddle these days but it's more of the Mangino, get to the line, and check-with-me style (which I hated until Beck ran it).That being said I don't think anyone runs it at the breakneck speed Frost wants.

Also I think from a consistency of staff stand point. Nebraska and Oklahoma are the only 2 who have the head coach is the offensive genius who runs the system. Bama and others rely on offensive coordinators who will be there maybe 1 or 2 years have success then get hired and move on. 

[Red Five]

2 hours ago, DefenderAO said:

 

Year-over-year top schools in the country:

 

Tier 1 - Bama and Clemson

Tier 2 - Georgia, Oklahoma, OSU

 

No Tier 1 and 2 team plays fast; they're mostly pro-style offenses.

 

Huh?  Saying these are “mostly pro-style offenses” is flat out wrong.  Clemson, OU, and OSU all run versions of a spread and also go at tempo (no, not as fast as Frost wants).  Alabama has morphed into more of a no-huddle spread the last couple years from the pro-style they ran for most of Saban’s tenure.  Georgia is the only offense out of this group I would call pro-style.

[Undone]

4 minutes ago, Red Five said:

 

Huh?  Saying these are “mostly pro-style offenses” is flat out wrong.  Clemson, OU, and OSU all run versions of a spread and also go at tempo (no, not as fast as Frost wants).  Alabama has morphed into more of a no-huddle spread the last couple years from the pro-style they ran for most of Saban’s tenure.  Georgia is the only offense out of this group I would call pro-style.

 

+1.

 

Oklahoma's spread offense goes pretty fast.

Ohio State's offense for most of the Urban Meyer years is similar from a high level to the Tim Beck offense; it's a power run zone read scheme. They don't typically go extremely fast but to say that list is "mostly pro-style offenses" is incorrect. What Ohio State did last year is probably closer to a 'Mack Brown Spread.'

[ZRod]

37 minutes ago, DefenderAO said:

 

All those five teams have elements of what Frost wants. OU doesn’t play D with physicality like Frost wants. Bama and Clemson don’t pace as fast as Scott wants. 

 

He’s scheming in a differentiated way and recruiting for that approach. 

I think Urban's tOSU is close to what Scott wants, but with Oregon rocket boosters strapped to it's back. They had the ability to go fast, they were multiple out of the spread but could punch you in the mouth when it was short yardage. And the defense had some pretty solid players on it.

 

There's nothing new or unique about the elements that Frost wants to implement. Bits and pieces have been around on one team or another since at least the 80's, if not earlier. All the top teams are running multple elements of what Scott wants. What is new is the way he's combining the ingredients. People on this board said years ago that a team like Chip Kelly's Oregon with the physicality of old school Nebraska would be lights out.  We're about to see exactly what that would look like!

[Undone]

1 minute ago, ZRod said:

I think Urban's tOSU is close to what Scott wants

 

Not really, honestly. Urban's offense used a ton of inside zone handoffs to big power backs. The backs didn't go out on pass routes nearly as much, and the receivers were built more like bigger bodied wideouts. The Duck-R position and all of the post-snap looks & positioning makes what Frost is doing very different from Urban's power run zone read.

[DefenderAO]

17 minutes ago, Red Five said:

 

Huh?  Saying these are “mostly pro-style offenses” is flat out wrong.  Clemson, OU, and OSU all run versions of a spread and also go at tempo (no, not as fast as Frost wants).  Alabama has morphed into more of a no-huddle spread the last couple years from the pro-style they ran for most of Saban’s tenure.  Georgia is the only offense out of this group I would call pro-style.

Pro Style May have been misnomered in my statement. The meta point was they are different in pace and scheme. Frost is looking more to the old Oregon scheme coupled with the older NU power at the lines. 

 

None of the schools in tier 1 and tier 2 are mirroring it in efficacy even if they are trying in intent. 

 

Clemson and Bama are near mirrors of each other. OU has the weakest D of the five. Georgia is also similar to the former two. 

 

NU is trying for something a bit different. 

[DefenderAO]

8 minutes ago, ZRod said:

I think Urban's tOSU is close to what Scott wants, but with Oregon rocket boosters strapped to it's back. They had the ability to go fast, they were multiple out of the spread but could punch you in the mouth when it was short yardage. And the defense had some pretty solid players on it.

 

There's nothing new or unique about the elements that Frost wants to implement. Bits and pieces have been around on one team or another since at least the 80's, if not earlier. All the top teams are running multple elements of what Scott wants. What is new is the way he's combining the ingredients. People on this board said years ago that a team like Chip Kelly's Oregon with the physicality of old school Nebraska would be lights out.  We're about to see exactly what that would look like!

Yes this is my point. Throw NU strength at Oregon zip and they win at least one NC in their Kelly tenure. 

 

Sure, facets existed but never all in one place. That is the plan. Bring it to Lincoln. 

[knapplc]

51 minutes ago, DefenderAO said:

Waterbug, yes. iPhone autocorrect got me. I edited above  

 

Hah!  I saw "waterbed" and the two names you listed and I thought you were referring to huge guys on the line, and a couple of new recruits I hadn't heard of.

 

This makes much more sense.

[ZRod]

8 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

Not really, honestly. Urban's offense used a ton of inside zone handoffs to big power backs. The backs didn't go out on pass routes nearly as much, and the receivers were built more like bigger bodied wideouts. The Duck-R position and all of the post-snap looks & positioning makes what Frost is doing very different from Urban's power run zone read.

I'm talking about general tempo and physicality out of a faster spread offense. You're entirely correct that the concepts and base scheme are completely different. 

[CapoValley]

A quick, fast peak Chip Kelly offense is a great goal. It will be fun to watch but when it doesn’t work, and can’t keep the sticks moving, it can be disastrous if your defense isn’t up to par. 

 

I think we need a lot more depth before this truly takes hold. 

[Undone]

1 minute ago, ZRod said:

I'm talking about general tempo and physicality out of a faster spread offense.

 

I gotcha.

 

Yeah I really think that it hit Frost about 3/4 of the way through last year that without the physicality, he couldn't just do what he did at UCF and score 50 in conference games. The emphasis on the strength program combined with the speedsters at the skill positions is in my opinion going to take this program to the highest level it could possibly reach in the Big Ten.