Covid-19 Legislation

[FrantzHardySwag]

11 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

 

I wish the snowflakes were even half as upset with a black man getting shot jogging through his own neighborhood, as they were Karen having to actually follow the Governors orders during a pandemic. 

[teachercd]

8 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

You're claiming it's a small number of companies, but I'd like to see the evidence for it.

 

And the logic that it has be a small number doesn't work if the employees have no where to go. Think of your BMW example. What if you lived somewhere that only sold BMW and Yugos. BMW sucks but it's still better than Yugo. Or what if there were Audis (or insert your preferred car company here) sold but they had all been bought because there were so few of them and everyone where you live wants one.

Well... I am talking about America, where we can move freely.  Not Romania circa 1980.

 

And, I gave you evidence of 11 organizations.  Where only 1 did anything close to "exploit" me.

 

I think your experience with your place (it sounds horrible) is tainting (ha) things a bit.

 

 

 

[RedDenver]

7 minutes ago, teachercd said:

Well... I am talking about America, where we can move freely.  Not Romania circa 1980.

What if you're unemployed and can't afford to move?

 

7 minutes ago, teachercd said:

And, I gave you evidence of 11 organizations.  Where only 1 did anything close to "exploit" me.

 

I think your experience with your place (it sounds horrible) is tainting (ha) things a bit.

It's possible, but the reverse is also possible: that your experience is tainting your view.

[teachercd]

4 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

What if you're unemployed and can't afford to move?

 

It's possible, but the reverse is also possible: that your experience is tainting your view.

It could be...but I gave 11 examples.  That is a decent amount.

 

How many places have you worked at in your life and how many exploited you?  I am guessing it is a lot.  Unless maybe we just have different ideas of what exploitation is, and that might be.

 

Heck when I was a kid I worked at a grocery store and the rules in place to protect me were nuts!  Could not work past 7pm on weekdays...no more than 3 hours shifts on weekends...no more than 4 hours on the weekends...no more than 15 hours a week.  

 

 

If you are unemployed, you are not being currently exploited by a company.   

[RedDenver]

2 minutes ago, teachercd said:

It could be...but I gave 11 examples.  That is a decent amount.

 

How many places have you worked at in your life and how many exploited you?  I am guessing it is a lot.  Unless maybe we just have different ideas of what exploitation is, and that might be.

Doesn't really matter. We're just giving personal anecdotes. We'd need to look at thousands of companies to have a better idea.

 

2 minutes ago, teachercd said:

 

Heck when I was a kid I worked at a grocery store and the rules in place to protect me were nuts!  Could not work past 7pm on weekdays...no more than 3 hours shifts on weekends...no more than 4 hours on the weekends...no more than 15 hours a week. 

Were those rules by the company or regulations by the state? There's an important difference between a company choosing not to exploit a worker and being forced not to exploit a worker.

 

2 minutes ago, teachercd said:

If you are unemployed, you are not being currently exploited by a company.   

Ok, then what if you're employed but can't afford to move?

[teachercd]

Those were union rules...

 

 

If you can't afford to move you need to cut costs and save up.  Millions of people have done it.  My parents did it from Europe and came here with nothing.

 

And the journey of looking at thousands of companies starts with a single step

[BigRedBuster]

43 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

You're claiming it's a small number of companies, but I'd like to see the evidence for it.

 

And the logic that it has be a small number doesn't work if the employees have no where to go. Think of your BMW example. What if you lived somewhere that only sold BMW and Yugos. BMW sucks but it's still better than Yugo. Or what if there were Audis (or insert your preferred car company here) sold but they had all been bought because there were so few of them and everyone where you live wants one.

I've worked for 6 businesses that I didn't own or manage along with several other part time jobs in college.  I have never thought I was being exploited or taken advantage of.

[Guy Chamberlin]

I've consulted for a lot of companies, big and small, which lets you learn a lot about a company without being responsible to it. 

 

I've found a vast majority are run by good people who generally do the right thing, and feel bad when they don't. Sometimes these good people run all the way up to the CEO. But even then, the company will have to answer to a Board of Directors and/or shareholders, who have divested themselves of empathy and sentimentality. They don't think of themselves as bad guys, either, but they are working in a system that takes advantage of any perceived weakness, and believes the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many. Adding insult to injury, they create narratives casting themselves as the victim of government over-reach, and somehow get the hard-working Americans they're screwing to agree with them. On occasion, I've been asked to write those narratives for them. 

 

There are companies that have gone above and beyond for employee benefits and social causes, and they totally deserve support and encouragement. But let's not forget that things like group healthcare and maternity leave and retirement benefits and workplace safety and non-reliance on child labor and the weekend itself were the result of a long and brutal fight with powerful business interests that didn't want to give an inch to their employees until forced to. That's not over. COVID-19 is going to be a fascinating study of our priorities. 

 

 

 

[RedDenver]

 

[teachercd]

I worked in the Adult Entertainment industry where the women were paid 10 times as much as me...but I never felt exploited

[BigRedBuster]

5 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

group healthcare

The interesting thing about this is, unions along with the more liberal side of politics, fought hard to get companies to be forced to have this.

 

Now, I see tweets from very liberal sources proclaiming that healthcare provided and tied to employment is absolutely horrible and needs to end.

 

 

I'm not saying the business interests from the beginning are anywhere close to honorable in this.  BUT....the argument from both sides  was wrong from the beginning.

[RedDenver]

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

43 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

The interesting thing about this is, unions along with the more liberal side of politics, fought hard to get companies to be forced to have this.

 

Now, I see tweets from very liberal sources proclaiming that healthcare provided and tied to employment is absolutely horrible and needs to end.

 

 

I'm not saying the business interests from the beginning are anywhere close to honorable in this.  BUT....the argument from both sides  was wrong from the beginning.

 

Well the argument was that companies needed to provide healthcare in order to keep their employees healthy and loyal (and of course, working) back when you signed on to a company for life. Retirement plans, too.

 

But with fewer employees in long term employment, and companies outsourcing and part-timing work in order to avoid paying healthcare and other benefits, anyone suffering from job insecurity also suffers from healthcare insecurity. I think the big difference from years ago is that the costs weren't as astronomical when you had to pay out of pocket. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Again, while Medicare for All strikes some folks as dangerous socialism, a lot of for-profit capitalist enterprises would LOVE to get out of the healthcare business and channel that revenue elsewhere. 

 

Of course the private healthcare industry that thrives on over-billing fellow private industries as well as government safety nets will fight this win/win scenario.  

[Landlord]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

The interesting thing about this is, unions along with the more liberal side of politics, fought hard to get companies to be forced to have this.

 

 

The world has changed, and the solutions to problems need to change as well. We no longer live in a world of adequate life-long company careers.