Biden's America

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, JJ Husker said:

If we need those fields to have a functioning society then the much more sensical solution is to make education more affordable. And while we’re at it we could modify and incentivize how society actually does hire workers. There are way too many jobs that require 4 year degrees with no basis in the reality of what is actually required for the job. It’s an elitist system that directly subsidizes higher education for self perpetuating reasons. The only mutually agreed upon thing in this discussion I am aware of is the straightforward loan agreement of give me this money and I promise to pay it back. There is no proverbial gun being held to people’s heads to sign that agreement.

 

I completely agree with the bold.

 

I don't agree that the loan is mutually agreed upon, because of the bolded sentences. College students and recent grads at the center of the loan forgiveness discussion are at the mercy of the society you've correctly laid out. They will not get a job in any kind of advanced field without that degree. There's no negotiation, with either the hiring company or the school.

 

So while we're working on fixing everything in the bold sentences, what do we do with the generation who's had to pay the insane tuition costs that we, as a society, demand they pay so they can enter the workforce to keep our society functional?

 

You seem to bring up a fairness question when you talk about your recent grad. Is it fair to families like yours who have paid what you've paid? I don't think it is. But I don't think that's a compelling argument against fixing this problem, either.

 

$1.7 trillion dollars in debt is a national crisis. I don't know that I advocate Biden's or the Dems' plan to fix it. But we do need to do something.

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, JJ Husker said:

Actually we're not watching them anyway

Avalanche are 11 games in.  In first place so congrats.  

[Archy1221]

58 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

This is where I stand on it as well.

Agreed as well

[JJ Husker]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

I completely agree with the bold.

 

I don't agree that the loan is mutually agreed upon, because of the bolded sentences. College students and recent grads at the center of the loan forgiveness discussion are at the mercy of the society you've correctly laid out. They will not get a job in any kind of advanced field without that degree. There's no negotiation, with either the hiring company or the school.

 

So while we're working on fixing everything in the bold sentences, what do we do with the generation who's had to pay the insane tuition costs that we, as a society, demand they pay so they can enter the workforce to keep our society functional?

 

You seem to bring up a fairness question when you talk about your recent grad. Is it fair to families like yours who have paid what you've paid? I don't think it is. But I don't think that's a compelling argument against fixing this problem, either.

 

$1.7 trillion dollars in debt is a national crisis. I don't know that I advocate Biden's or the Dems' plan to fix it. But we do need to do something.

Agreed. I’m not against providing some level of assistance. I’m actually not even aware of what the Biden administration favors. But the solutions offered by the further left like Sanders are, imo, simplistic bailouts that only provide a very expensive short term fix. I just favor real solutions that fix the underlying problems and benefit everyone rather than completing bailing out those who agreed to the fiscal position they find themselves in.  I don’t happen to believe a higher degree is the only way to make it in this world. But yeah, it sure can make the path easier.

 

I didn’t complete my degree. I own a business, make six figures and am happy.

My wife is in the same boat. Didn’t finish her degree yet worked as a computer systems administrator.

My son has not finished his degree (which we are still trying to encourage otherwise) but he is gainfully employed and happy.

My daughter just graduated UNL in December with a major in Business Admin and minors in math and economics. She is currently still working a PT internship but looking for full time employment. She has relatively little student debt because we paid a great portion of her education as incurred. But much of that expense did end up being shifted to our home mortgage, mostly because that interest rate was much more attractive than student or parent loan options. The only thing that would make me regret that decision would be if our government started writing off student loan balances for others.

 

Anyway, this may all be anecdotal and TMI but I think it gives good insight into why I don’t personally feel a college degree is ultimately needed for society to function. We’re all functioning and getting by fine.

 

[Archy1221]

46 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

If you can disprove my statement, post it up. Two or three examples might even  illicit a retraction from me. I’m not going in search of the needle in the haystack.

It’s not up to me to disprove your statement.  If you would have done your homework Before making the claim, you wouldn’t have made the claim.   Heck just look from the January 6th riot day on and you will have a few there 

[JJ Husker]

6 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Avalanche are 11 games in.  In first place so congrats.  

Thanks. I’ve watched every one of those games. Am super bummed that their last 2 and next 3 games minimum have been postponed. That was my entertainment plan for the next week.

[Archy1221]

35 minutes ago, Decoy73 said:

Not even sure how to respond to this.  So are you saying players shouldn't get vaccinated?  We should just continue with the testing, isolating, quarantining..

You know I’m not saying that as that wasn’t the discussion.  They should wait in line till their turn comes up based on the CDC and State level criteria. 

33 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

He is saying whatever allows him to maintain faux outrage with the Biden administration. It’s a waste of time trying to get all the pieces of his argument to make sense and fit together, he sure isn’t.

Nope 

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

You know I’m not saying that as that wasn’t the discussion.

 

[Archy1221]

34 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

I completely agree with the bold.

 

I don't agree that the loan is mutually agreed upon, because of the bolded sentences. College students and recent grads at the center of the loan forgiveness discussion are at the mercy of the society you've correctly laid out. They will not get a job in any kind of advanced field without that degree. There's no negotiation, with either the hiring company or the school.

 

So while we're working on fixing everything in the bold sentences, what do we do with the generation who's had to pay the insane tuition costs that we, as a society, demand they pay so they can enter the workforce to keep our society functional?

 

You seem to bring up a fairness question when you talk about your recent grad. Is it fair to families like yours who have paid what you've paid? I don't think it is. But I don't think that's a compelling argument against fixing this problem, either.

 

$1.7 trillion dollars in debt is a national crisis. I don't know that I advocate Biden's or the Dems' plan to fix it. But we do need to do something.

While I agree college is too expensive and and 30 percent of it is a waste of money because of the general education requirements, what fields of study are not attainable without incurring less than $30,000 total debt max over the course of the college education?  First two years of any state school can be done in community college for dirt cheap comparatively speaking.  
 

Kids who choose to go the expensive way are definitely making a conscious choice to tack up debt in lieu of a different alternative.  Especially knowing that they may be entering a career field that doesn’t pay top notch salaries.  

[Archy1221]

17 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

[JJ Husker]

28 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

It’s not up to me to disprove your statement.  If you would have done your homework Before making the claim, you wouldn’t have made the claim.   Heck just look from the January 6th riot day on and you will have a few there 

I'll retract based on the logical assumption that no person in their right mind could not have not been disgusted by many of Trump's actions at some point.

 

But I will also continue to believe that your posting history has a pronounced bias in significantly one direction. I just think it says a lot to claim to be disgusted about pro players being prioritized for vaccination, when it has not been shown to actually delay other groups. It pales in comparison to the multitude of truly disgusting things Trump and his administration have done.

[BigRedBuster]

4 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Probably not.  Productive members of society aren’t their thing.  You don’t fit the description of voters to pander to.  Whiny a$$h@!es with useless college degrees and lots of private college debt are in their wheelhouse. 

Wtf????  So, college graduates aren’t productive members of society?

[Enhance]

2 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

While I agree college is too expensive and and 30 percent of it is a waste of money because of the general education requirements, what fields of study are not attainable without incurring less than $30,000 total debt max over the course of the college education?

"Not attainable" is a strong qualifier, but I can think of several that are difficult or rare to achieve without a four year degree that cost more than $30,000. And to @knapplc's point, there are quite a few necessary ones that are part of a high functioning society.

 

1) Doctor/surgeon/etc.

2) Journalist/reporter (I've only met a few journalists in my life that didn't go to a four year college, and I've been in the media industry for almost a decade. They're rare.)

3) Lawyers

4) Most engineering and advanced engineering fields, architects

5) Teachers/college professors

6) Most marketing professionals

7) Actuaries

 

I'm all for pushing people to trade schools or community colleges and the like, but anybody wanting the above mentioned either has to a) hope they're really smart and get it all paid for or b) pay out their a$$ and incur monstrous debt. Some are fortunate enough to pay it off within 5-10 years of employment. Others are not, as we all know.

 

Journalists might be the most abused of that group from a salary perspective. Often can't get a job without a four year degree in broadcasting journalism, and then an employer wants to pay $25-$30k right out of school. I had friends in 2013 getting hired at $20,000 in Lincoln, Neb., to be a journalist.

[knapplc]

4 minutes ago, Enhance said:

Journalists might be the most abused of that group from a salary perspective. Often can't get a job without a four year degree in broadcasting journalism, and then an employer wants to pay $25-$30k right out of school. I had friends in 2013 getting hired at $20,000 in Lincoln, Neb., to be a journalist.

 

This is just criminal.

[Archy1221]

8 minutes ago, Enhance said:

"Not attainable" is a strong qualifier, but I can think of several that are difficult or rare to achieve without a four year degree that cost more than $30,000. And to @knapplc's point, there are quite a few necessary ones that are part of a high functioning society.

 

1) Doctor/surgeon/etc.

2) Journalist/reporter (I've only met a few journalists in my life that didn't go to a four year college, and I've been in the media industry for almost a decade. They're rare.)

3) Lawyers

4) Most engineering and advanced engineering fields, architects

5) Teachers/college professors

6) Most marketing professionals

7) Actuaries

 

I'm all for pushing people to trade schools or community colleges and the like, but anybody wanting the above mentioned either has to a) hope they're really smart and get it all paid for or b) pay out their a$$ and incur monstrous debt. Some are fortunate enough to pay it off within 5-10 years of employment. Others are not, as we all know.

 

Journalists might be the most abused of that group from a salary perspective. Often can't get a job without a four year degree in broadcasting journalism, and then an employer wants to pay $25-$30k right out of school. I had friends in 2013 getting hired at $20,000 in Lincoln, Neb., to be a journalist.

1) I didn’t say COST.  I said max debt.  
2) Doctors—this is probably the most effective debt anyone can take out.  Guaranteed high income.  If worried about debt, many programs to have med school debt forgiven by working in rural or in need areas.  This is nonsense to say Medical School Debt should be blanket forgiven.  
3). Surgeons—see above but on steroids.  Guaranteed $300,000 minimum income.  Again, some of the most effective debt one can take out.  Nonsense to say otherwise. 
3). Journalists I will pass on.  Know nothing about the job prospects or pay.  
4). Lawyers. This one can be tricky because of the wide range of income in the law field.  However, 2 yrs community college, 2 years of state school and 3 years of law school for an in demand high paying job that is in demand anyone in the country, (just pass the state bar) is a pretty good investment in ones future and gives plenty of income to pay off the debt (though it shouldn’t cost so much to attend law school.  Biased here because I have three brothers that are lawyers.  And My parents didn’t contribute to anyone of our post HS educations.  All do very well.  
4). Engineering—one of the most in demand jobs (generally speaking about engineering) and very good pay post college.  Nonsense to think these people would have issues paying off school debt if they went the state school route.  Cheapest way is 2 yrs CC and 2 yrs State school.  Work/family contributions if they are able. 
5). Teachers are the ones that I think have the hardest time, because of the income but if you know you want to be a teacher then choose your college wisely.  This one is no different than my daughter who will have relatively the same income as a teacher after she graduates from KState.  She worked all through college and in the summers, took CC on line courses while at Kstate for gen ed requirements and went four years for under $60,000 living expenses included.  She will graduate with zero student loans because she was smart with the school choice, worked her a$$ off and did well in school.   
6). I have a marketing degree and management minor.  This is a non starter argument for me as I make a good living had no parental support for college and had no issues paying student loans. 
7). Actuaries can start off making just shy of six figures right out of school.   
 

Outside of post graduate school, every scenario you mentioned can be done for under $30k in student loans and every one but teachers will have zero problems finding jobs to pay that debt.  
Monstrous debt is up to the person choosing the school.  Don’t be a moron and choose a school you can’t afford.