The Angry Violent Left

[Danny Bateman]

31 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

And again, I don’t think the “Bush doesn’t like Black people” thing was very widespread within the party.

 

Nope, just this one guy.

 

 

(Myers reaction absolutely slays me every single time.)

[Moiraine]

Just now, Danny Bateman said:

 

Nope, just this one guy.

 

 

(Myers reaction absolutely slays me every single time.)

 

 

He’s probably thinking “my career is over.”

[BigRedBuster]

35 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

You mean from me or because it’s true? This is another both sides argument where one side is a hell of a lot more guilty than the other. I agree with a lot of your post that there’s been a lot of division, but most of it is caused by Republican leaders not looking out for the country’s best interests, and Fox getting people angry over nothing with a combination of sensationalism and outright lies.

 

Democrats didn’t do anything even approaching what Republicans did to Obama with the birth certificate stuff, opposing his every move out of hand, and the Supreme court nomination. Their treatment of Bush never approached that. The 9/11 stuff is a nutbar conspiracy by a tiny minority. The birth certificate stuff was on a much bigger scale within the Republican party than the 9/11 conspiracy ever was.

 

Katrina was actually a thing that happened and the response wasn’t good. And again, I don’t think the “Bush doesn’t like Black people” thing was very widespread within the party.

me thinks your bias is showing.

[Moiraine]

8 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

me thinks your bias is showing.

 

 

Do you think the 9/11 conspiracy was as widely believed within the Democratic party and distributed, including among the party’s leadership, as the birther conspiracy within the Republican party?

[funhusker]

2 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Do you think the 9/11 conspiracy was as widely believed within the Democratic party and distributed, including among the party’s leadership, as the birther conspiracy within the Republican party?

No.  Actually, it is my experience that most people that think it was an inside job voted for Trump because it was an act by the evil "deep state".

[Moiraine]

24 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

me thinks your bias is showing.

 

 

We’re all biased, but thinking the Republicans and Fox have been the cause of far more division than Democrats does not require one to be biased.

 

Thinking both sides are equal in this requires one to be biased for the Repulican party.

[BigRedBuster]

21 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Do you think the 9/11 conspiracy was as widely believed within the Democratic party and distributed, including among the party’s leadership, as the birther conspiracy within the Republican party?

 

Well....it was widely critically acclaimed.

 

American Cinema Editor's Award = Nominee

ASACPA American Film Music Awards = Winner

Bodil Awards = Nominee

British Independent Film Award = Winner

Broadcast Film Critics  Award = Nominee

Cannes film Festival = Winner X2

Chicago Film Critics Award = Winner

Ceaser Award = Nominee

Dallas - Fort Worth Film Critics = Winner

Director's Guild of America = Nominee

DVD Exclusive Awards = Nominee

European Film Awards = Nominee

Florida Film Critics Award = Winner

Gold Derby Award = Winner

 

+25 more....I'm tired of typing them.....along with a Peoples Choice Award.

 

After all that, The Democrats view Micheal Moore as a hero and I remember him being at the 2004 Democratic convention as an honored guest.  I don't remember too many Democrats ever speaking out against his implication that Bush has a part in 9/11.  They benefited from the public thinking he did...because of that film and Moore was greatly rewarded for it.

[Moiraine]

6 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Well....it was widely critically acclaimed.

 

American Cinema Editor's Award = Nominee

ASACPA American Film Music Awards = Winner

Bodil Awards = Nominee

British Independent Film Award = Winner

Broadcast Film Critics  Award = Nominee

Cannes film Festival = Winner X2

Chicago Film Critics Award = Winner

Ceaser Award = Nominee

Dallas - Fort Worth Film Critics = Winner

Director's Guild of America = Nominee

DVD Exclusive Awards = Nominee

European Film Awards = Nominee

Florida Film Critics Award = Winner

Gold Derby Award = Winner

 

+25 more....I'm tired of typing them.

 

After all that, The Democrats view Micheal Moore as a hero and I remember him being at the 2004 Democratic convention as an honored guest.  I don't remember too many Democrats ever speaking out against his implication that Bush has a part in 9/11.  They benefited from the public thinking he did...because of that film and Moore was greatly rewarded for it.

 

 

It was a very good movie. Had some good stuff on Hillary Clinton too, IIRC.

 

I don’t remember members or congress suggesting Bush was involved, but I didn’t remember Moore being at the convention.

 

Let’s say for argument’s sake they’re equal. That doesn’t change what I think is the fact that Republicans and Fox are for more cuplable for the current division, nor does that statement require bias.

[Ulty]

3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Well....it was widely critically acclaimed.

 

American Cinema Editor's Award = Nominee

ASACPA American Film Music Awards = Winner

Bodil Awards = Nominee

British Independent Film Award = Winner

Broadcast Film Critics  Award = Nominee

Cannes film Festival = Winner X2

Chicago Film Critics Award = Winner

Ceaser Award = Nominee

Dallas - Fort Worth Film Critics = Winner

Director's Guild of America = Nominee

DVD Exclusive Awards = Nominee

European Film Awards = Nominee

Florida Film Critics Award = Winner

Gold Derby Award = Winner

 

+25 more....I'm tired of typing them.....along with a Peoples Choice Award.

 

After all that, The Democrats view Micheal Moore as a hero and I remember him being at the 2004 Democratic convention as an honored guest.  I don't remember too many Democrats ever speaking out against his implication that Bush has a part in 9/11.  They benefited from the public thinking he did...because of that film and Moore was greatly rewarded for it.

 

Are you talking about the movie Fahrenheit 911? I thought these last few posts were talking about the conspiracy theory that 9/11 was an inside job masterminded by the Bush administration. There was no mainstream support for that c$%kamamie idea, and that is not what the movie was about at all. The movie was mostly about the war on terror and Bush's use of faulty intelligence to justify a war. I don't remember Michael Moore implicating, either in the movie or elsewhere that Bush was behind 9/11.

[BigRedBuster]

Just now, Moiraine said:

 

 

It was a very good movie. Had some good stuff on Hillary Clinton too, IIRC.

 

I don’t remember members or congress suggesting Bush was involved, They didn't have to....but they sure didn't discredit the implication...and they benefited from it in elections.   but I didn’t remember Moore being at the convention.  He was.

 

Let’s say for argument’s sake they’re equal. That doesn’t change what I think is the fact that Republicans and Fox are for more cuplable for the current division.

 

As for your last line.  Right here...this very minute....yes...Trump and Fox are extremely culpable in the division.  They are at the very top of the list.

 

However, over the last 30 years, I would not say the Republicans are much more than the Democrats.

[BigRedBuster]

7 minutes ago, Ulty said:

 

Are you talking about the movie Fahrenheit 911? I thought these last few posts were talking about the conspiracy theory that 9/11 was an inside job masterminded by the Bush administration. There was no mainstream support for that c$%kamamie idea, and that is not what the movie was about at all. The movie was mostly about the war on terror and Bush's use of faulty intelligence to justify a war. I don't remember Michael Moore implicating, either in the movie or elsewhere that Bush was behind 9/11.

From Rotten Tomatoes

 

 

Quote

An expose which reflects upon what has happened to America since the events of September 11, 2001 that touches upon the personal relationship between President George W. Bush and the family of terrorist Osama bin Laden. As well, the chronicle focuses on the powerful roles that oil and greed may have played in the terrorist attack on the U.S.A.

 

I remember talk about how Bush Senior had thrown a party in NYC with Saudi royal family to watch it all take place.

[Moiraine]

14 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

As for your last line.  Right here...this very minute....yes...Trump and Fox are extremely culpable in the division.  They are at the very top of the list.

 

However, over the last 30 years, I would not say the Republicans are much more than the Democrats.

 

 

Not sure why you stated “he was” as if I was arguing with you.

 

We can agree to disagree but I don’t see how it’s your conclusion. Democrats didn’t even approach Republicans in this before 2016. Just look at what they did in 2010 with gerrymandering. That by itself puts them over the top as far as causing division and being anti Democratic. Then there’s the supreme court nomination, and I believe @knapplc once posted a great list of just plain sensible laws that were voted on down the party lines (with Republicans against) that shouldn’t have been.

 

There are many examples of things that didn’t change just because Trump got elected, where the Republican party was always that way, taking whatever the opposite approach of occam’s razor is.

[Guy Chamberlin]

There's one persistent conspiracy theory that has managed to unite the left and right wings, though they rarely see it that way. 

 

There has always been a shadow government that is really pulling the strings. They are the real enemy, but they are so powerful and so invisible as to be nearly impossible to fight. It's the Trilateral Commission or the Elders of Zion or the Deep State or the New World Order. They are invariably globalists. To the Left, they are the individuals and corporations brought together by their vast wealth rather than nation or ideology. They have money and control and they are insatiable for more. To the Right, they are Globalists, united in their desire to erase borders and end nationalism -- a direct threat to the dominance and culture of the United States. 

 

There's some truth to this, of course. But it's not that mysterious. The money trail in politics is pretty clear. We can see it happening in broad daylight, and  usually shrug our shoulders. Occasionally consumers realize how powerful they are and exert tremendous influence.

 

But mostly we like things boiled down into stories. Needs to be a good guy and a bad guy. The people who write the stories know that. The stories that require nuance, context and time lose way too many people. And there we are. 

[Moiraine]

14 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

There's one persistent conspiracy theory that has managed to unite the left and right wings, though they rarely see it that way. 

 

There has always been a shadow government that is really pulling the strings. They are the real enemy, but they are so powerful and so invisible as to be nearly impossible to fight. It's the Trilateral Commission or the Elders of Zion or the Deep State or the New World Order. They are invariably globalists. To the Left, they are the individuals and corporations brought together by their vast wealth rather than nation or ideology. They have money and control and they are insatiable for more. To the Right, they are Globalists, united in their desire to erase borders and end nationalism -- a direct threat to the dominance and culture of the United States. 

 

There's some truth to this, of course. But it's not that mysterious. The money trail in politics is pretty clear. We can see it happening in broad daylight, and  usually shrug our shoulders. Occasionally consumers realize how powerful they are and exert tremendous influence.

 

But mostly we like things boiled down into stories. Needs to be a good guy and a bad guy. The people who write the stories know that. The stories that require nuance, context and time lose way too many people. And there we are. 

 

 

The funny thing about the conspiracy about the secret group brought together by wealth is it’s getting truer. Not that they’re connected or have some grand plan, but we have so many big global companies now that aren’t solely reliant on one country’s customers. So it makes sense if they become less concerned about their country of origin. But then still use their $ to influence it. 

[Ulty]

11 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I remember talk about how Bush Senior had thrown a party in NYC with Saudi royal family to watch it all take place.

 

Not saying this was never bandied about, but I don't remember it. This seems similar to the Trump claim about people dancing in the streets. Both claims seem nonsensical. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

An expose which reflects upon what has happened to America since the events of September 11, 2001 that touches upon the personal relationship between President George W. Bush and the family of terrorist Osama bin Laden. As well, the chronicle focuses on the powerful roles that oil and greed may have played in the terrorist attack on the U.S.A.

 

I had to look up a synopsis of the movie: I think there was talk about members of the Bin Laden family being secretly evacuated out of the country (I thought that this was ultimately debunked), but that was not a major theme of the movie. And the bolded part does not suggest that 9/11 was an inside job. If Michael Moore actually made that claim at some point, it would not be surprising, but this movie did not promote that notion, and it was never a mainstream theory that the left grasped onto.

 

In comparison, the birther movement was bought into by large segments of the right, including Trump himself. A little over a year ago, this article showed a poll that 51% of Republicans still believed Obama was born in Kenya: https://www.newsweek.com/trump-birther-obama-poll-republicans-kenya-744195

 

This poll in 2007 showed that at the time, 40% of Republicans still believed that Saddam Hussein had attacked America (27% of Democrats as well, dumbasses): https://www.prwatch.org/spin/2007/09/6427/saddam-did-911-one-third-americans-believe-big-lie

 

Lies, misinformation, and conspiracies are spread and believed moreso from the right. Liberals come up with plenty of their own hairbrained conspiracy theories and nonsense, of course, but it never seems to gain the same traction as the right-wing BS.