NBA 2023-24

[admo]

1 hour ago, sho said:

 

Most of the guys you listed would never have a chance to do this.   Players like Wilt, Hakeem, Bill Walton and Kareem would be my guesses to who would have been the closest to doing this in the past.   Most players like your list just are never going to get that many rebounds and that was never their role in their systems.   Shaq, could have, but in a Finals game, I can't see him passing it 10 times.  

 

Most have never seen him play in his prime, but reports are we are seeing the closest to what a prime Arvydas Sabonis was like, what could have been if he would have had the chance to come to the NBA earlier.

 

 

That said, people talking about Wembanyama being a unicorn coming next year, I counter that we already have a unicorn in Jokic.   While he's a decent defender and not athletic at all, he is hands down the best player in the league right now.   I hope he can be the start of the trend where we have skilled big man that can post up, stretch the floor, and be the de-facto QB of the offense.   Tired of seeing wannabe Steph's and Klay's.  I'd much rather see poor man version of Jokic taking over the NBA going forward.

 

 

I feel ya, and I agree except the players I noted are among the most known "greatest players in NBA history".  We've heard of their accomplishments every day or every year.  So my point was, Jokic did something the greatest players that ever walked onto a basketball court - never did that before.

 

I think that is pretty amazing.  I mean, these amazing Guards could have scored 30 points, 20 assists, 10 rebounds...... But did they ???  Would that be as equally impressive?  They have the ball in their hands too.  Tit for Tat, the Stat is still is still the Stat and incredibly impressive....... and never done before.  The greatest players ever could have been done the same thing in a similarly different way as I pointed out, but nobody did.  

[sho]

2 minutes ago, admo said:

I feel ya, and I agree except the players I noted are among the most known "greatest players in NBA history".  We've heard of their accomplishments every day or every year.  So my point was, Jokic did something the greatest players to walk onto a basketball court - never did.  

 

I think that is pretty amazing. 

 

I agree, we are all seeing how good he is now that he has the spotlight solely on Denver, all while in the flow of Denver's offense.   But I would be even more amazed if Steph had a 20 rebound game, or Kobe etc.   That takes nothing away from them being Mt Rushmore type players, they aren't the mold of Jokic.   And I would be gobsmacked to see Jokic go 12 for 16 on 3s and run his defender through hundreds of screens a game like Steph does.   Greatness doesn't come neatly in stats.   I mean, if that were the case, more people would be talking about David Robinson and Hakeem and their quadruple doubles, 2 of only 4 players to ever have done it ever in the NBA.   The 30-20-10 is rare, but happens more often than you would think, it's just the first time it happened in the Finals.  It's happened multiple times in the playoffs and even more in the regular season.  Heck Jokic did it earlier this playoffs.  It's an accomplishment, but it's not as unique  in terms of accomplishments.   Just a cursory search and Wilt had the same 30-20-10 15 times in his career.

[Guy Chamberlin]

35 minutes ago, admo said:

It is.  Except we hear all the time from tweets - almost monthly in sports......"He is the first player to do <insert phenomenal stat>  ....... (then wait for it).... since..... <year/player> did it 

 

So that is my beef.  I hear it too often in that format and this feels glossed over.  Maybe I just noticed things a bit too much and ruin it for everyone else 

 

I will bow down and exit now!

 

Thanks.  I'm seeing the media basking in the glow of Nicola Jokic this entire playoff run, and using superlatives saved for only the greatest players in the history of basketball. Come share the joy!

[admo]

1 hour ago, sho said:

 

I agree, we are all seeing how good he is now that he has the spotlight solely on Denver, all while in the flow of Denver's offense.   But I would be even more amazed if Steph had a 20 rebound game, or Kobe etc.   That takes nothing away from them being Mt Rushmore type players, they aren't the mold of Jokic.   And I would be gobsmacked to see Jokic go 12 for 16 on 3s and run his defender through hundreds of screens a game like Steph does.   Greatness doesn't come neatly in stats.   I mean, if that were the case, more people would be talking about David Robinson and Hakeem and their quadruple doubles, 2 of only 4 players to ever have done it ever in the NBA.   The 30-20-10 is rare, but happens more often than you would think, it's just the first time it happened in the Finals.  It's happened multiple times in the playoffs and even more in the regular season.  Heck Jokic did it earlier this playoffs.  It's an accomplishment, but it's not as unique  in terms of accomplishments.   Just a cursory search and Wilt had the same 30-20-10 15 times in his career.

Of course.  Players like Jokic and Nowitzki (.etc.,) care more about winning on the court and coming through for their team then big stat numbers.  And we see it and hear it when they speak post game.

 

But interestingly enough, I think the most impressive thing in today's NBA game (and dating the past 10 years) is how much running through screens, and around screens that Curry does each night.......... and how many screens that Jokic sets for his teammates.........   If there was ever a metric of amount of energy, physicality, and intelligence that can be measured to go with the 3's, pick and pops, pick and rolls, driving to the bucket or soft touch layups......  Curry and Jokic created the mold.  There is no one like them.  And I love that the most.

[admo]

1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Thanks.  I'm seeing the media basking in the glow of Nicola Jokic this entire playoff run, and using superlatives saved for only the greatest players in the history of basketball. Come share the joy!

Would be nice if that was true.  They say some nice things, sure.  But they also hint that he is boring, doesn't do anything exciting, just the dirty work.

 

If he was a player that showed emotion and dunked on people, and was cocky and arrogant...... things the kids like to relate to these days, then he would really get those superlatives in a more meaningful way.  

 

Be honest.  Jimmy Butler, Tatum, Embiid, Luka, Curry, Morant, Zion, Giannis, Booker, SGA, Anthony Davis, Durrant, Kyrie Ivring ......  they are the best Steak Dinners around - Angus beef, ribeye, T-Bone, NY Strip, Porterhouse, Sirloin, etc.....

 

Jokic is purple cabbage (Rotkohl) with mashed potatoes and chicken fried steak.  Nice, really good, and gets the job done.  But nothing to excited about though in comparison to the steaks.  

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, admo said:

Would be nice if that was true.  They say some nice things, sure.  But they also hint that he is boring, doesn't do anything exciting, just the dirty work.

 

 

We appear to be watching different sports programs. 

[The Murphinator]

2 hours ago, admo said:

Would be nice if that was true.  They say some nice things, sure.  But they also hint that he is boring, doesn't do anything exciting, just the dirty work.

 

If he was a player that showed emotion and dunked on people, and was cocky and arrogant...... things the kids like to relate to these days, then he would really get those superlatives in a more meaningful way.  

 

Be honest.  Jimmy Butler, Tatum, Embiid, Luka, Curry, Morant, Zion, Giannis, Booker, SGA, Anthony Davis, Durrant, Kyrie Ivring ......  they are the best Steak Dinners around - Angus beef, ribeye, T-Bone, NY Strip, Porterhouse, Sirloin, etc.....

 

Jokic is purple cabbage (Rotkohl) with mashed potatoes and chicken fried steak.  Nice, really good, and gets the job done.  But nothing to excited about though in comparison to the steaks.  

 

Stephen A Smith says the same thing anytime Jokic is brought up. He says they can't stop him and that he is a tub of lard and can't jump on to a curb. Wish he would come up with some new material been using that same line since like 2019. He has got his flowers from all the normal analysts though. Really only people who haven't are known haters in Mark Jones and Nick Wright. Then again it is their job to say crazy things for views.

[admo]

2 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

We appear to be watching different sports programs. 

We do have different interpretations about that....  and that's Ok with me.  

 

[admo]

1 hour ago, The Murphinator said:

Stephen A Smith says the same thing anytime Jokic is brought up. He says they can't stop him and that he is a tub of lard and can't jump on to a curb. Wish he would come up with some new material been using that same line since like 2019. He has got his flowers from all the normal analysts though. Really only people who haven't are known haters in Mark Jones and Nick Wright. Then again it is their job to say crazy things for views.

Yeah SAS is the producer on ESPN and that's a really rude thing to say about Jokic - no matter if he says some nice things about him here and there.  Definitely not gonna insult Curry or Durrant or....  

 

During this playoff run, Michael Wilbon (sportswriter for DC Post, Analyst for ESPN - a voice for PTI ) sneaks in smug remarks about Jokic, with occasional praise around it.  And during last night's game he literally said in front of the camera "Jokic received preferential calls from the officials....." 

 

Like, whaat ???  What games are you watching ??

 

Michael Wilborn been under my skin lately lol.  

 

This series has been fantastic, and the refs have swallowed their whistles like never before - on both sides. There is some back and forth going on between the teams - pulling jerseys - some bumping - making contact - kinda like the old days - and for the most part - the refs are letting them play.  It's refreshing.  But to say that one of the league's superstars (Wilbon on Jokic) is receiving preferential calls ...... I just have never heard anyone say that on air about other superstars in the league, current or in the past.  Definitely not about Curry or LeBron or Durrant or Tatum or Booker or......  

[Mavric]

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

15 hours ago, admo said:

Yeah SAS is the producer on ESPN and that's a really rude thing to say about Jokic - no matter if he says some nice things about him here and there.  Definitely not gonna insult Curry or Durrant or....  

 

During this playoff run, Michael Wilbon (sportswriter for DC Post, Analyst for ESPN - a voice for PTI ) sneaks in smug remarks about Jokic, with occasional praise around it.  And during last night's game he literally said in front of the camera "Jokic received preferential calls from the officials....." 

 

Like, whaat ???  What games are you watching ??

 

Michael Wilborn been under my skin lately lol.  

 

This series has been fantastic, and the refs have swallowed their whistles like never before - on both sides. There is some back and forth going on between the teams - pulling jerseys - some bumping - making contact - kinda like the old days - and for the most part - the refs are letting them play.  It's refreshing.  But to say that one of the league's superstars (Wilbon on Jokic) is receiving preferential calls ...... I just have never heard anyone say that on air about other superstars in the league, current or in the past.  Definitely not about Curry or LeBron or Durrant or Tatum or Booker or......  

 

Wha?!?!?

 

Superstars getting preferential officiating has been baked into pundit chatter for as long as I've been watching the NBA, and that famously includes Michael Jordan. They're not making it up, either. It's always been a hot topic for LeBron James, and some analysts go so far as to cite LeBron's undue influence getting the League to suspend Draymond Green for Game 6 in 2016.  You also hear it from the other side:  "that's a questionable call. Chris Paul may get away with it, but Rookie doesn't." (fwiw....I don't think Jokic got preferential treatment but I never saw Wilbon's evidence.) 

 

If you've never seen an ESPN or TNT commentator question the play, the attitude, or the abilities of guys like LeBron, Durant, Tatum, Embid, Kahwai Leonard, or God forbid Harden, Westbrook, Chris Paul, or Kyrie Irving, we are definitely listening to different games. 

 

Charles Barkley talked s#!t about Steph Curry for 10 years before either Curry's play or Shaquille O'Neal convinced him Steph was actually special. In case you didn't notice, ESPN loves nothing better than analysts who disagree with each other. It's not a one-sided conspiracy. 

 

Giannis Antetokounmpo is probably the most uniformly appreciated NBA superstar right now, and Jokic is about to be a close second, and possibly first when he brings home a title with unprecedented Finals stats.  If you're a Nuggets/Jokic fan, this is a time to be happy. 

 

 

[admo]

8 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Wha?!?!?

 

Superstars getting preferential officiating has been baked into pundit chatter for as long as I've been watching the NBA, and that famously includes Michael Jordan. They're not making it up, either. It's always been a hot topic for LeBron James, and some analysts go so far as to cite LeBron's undue influence getting the League to suspend Draymond Green for Game 6 in 2016.  You also hear it from the other side:  "that's a questionable call. Chris Paul may get away with it, but Rookie doesn't." (fwiw....I don't think Jokic got preferential treatment but I never saw Wilbon's evidence.) 

 

If you've never seen an ESPN or TNT commentator question the play, the attitude, or the abilities of guys like LeBron, Durant, Tatum, Embid, Kahwai Leonard, or God forbid Harden, Westbrook, Chris Paul, or Kyrie Irving, we are definitely listening to different games. 

 

Charles Barkley talked s#!t about Steph Curry for 10 years before either Curry's play or Shaquille O'Neal convinced him Steph was actually special. In case you didn't notice, ESPN loves nothing better than analysts who disagree with each other. It's not a one-sided conspiracy. 

 

Giannis Antetokounmpo is probably the most uniformly appreciated NBA superstar right now, and Jokic is about to be a close second, and possibly first when he brings home a title with unprecedented Finals stats.  If you're a Nuggets/Jokic fan, this is a time to be happy. 

 

 

Never mentioned "questioning the play" as you say.  Or analysts that disagree as you say.  You actually didn't understand what I said, but then took it down the road to somewhere else.  No worries.

 

Not a Nuggets/Jokic fan.  I can still root for them though, right?  Because I see some historical stuff happening and I respect that a lot.  If Miami wins, I won't lose sleep.  In fact, I really like their team and coach.  I just see things differently, and as Wilbon said tonight "Jokic and Murray are not going to wow you....they are not going to excite you.... they are Efficient and productive at winning, but...."   

 

Wilbon said that when asked in comparison to Shaq and Kobe - if Jokic and Murray are as a dominant force in the playoff run like they were. 

 

Wilbon leaned hard on the word Effectiveness and Production when referring to Jokic and Murray.  And couldn't just say "yes, no, possibly, I think so.."

 

It's a downplay on what they are doing during the playoffs and I take offense to that.  That's my beef.  And that's my entire rant about Wilbon, SAS, VanGundy, Mark Jackson, Nick Wright, etc, etc...... 

 

Tired of their hypocrisy.  

[Lorewarn]

13 hours ago, admo said:

Wilbon said that when asked in comparison to Shaq and Kobe - if Jokic and Murray are as a dominant force in the playoff run like they were. 

 

Wilbon leaned hard on the word Effectiveness and Production when referring to Jokic and Murray.  And couldn't just say "yes, no, possibly, I think so.."

 

It's a downplay on what they are doing during the playoffs and I take offense to that.  That's my beef.  And that's my entire rant about Wilbon, SAS, VanGundy, Mark Jackson, Nick Wright, etc, etc...... 

 

Tired of their hypocrisy.  

 

 

 

You got a link? Because that doesn't sound like a downplay at all - it sounds like an accurate assessment. Their game is lethal in its methodical execution and nature, and is absolutely lacking in the high-flying/rim rattling spectacle of how we've been accustomed to seeing greatness manifest.

[admo]

4 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

 

You got a link? Because that doesn't sound like a downplay at all - it sounds like an accurate assessment. Their game is lethal in its methodical execution and nature, and is absolutely lacking in the high-flying/rim rattling spectacle of how we've been accustomed to seeing greatness manifest.

Why are you asking for a link?  

 

The link is the Live pregame show on TV.  I recorded it.  Greenberg asked the question to Smith, then to Wilbon, then to Jalen Rose.  When Smith struggled to answer, he asked it to Wilbon.  The question was "is Jokic and Murray as dominating in this playoff run as Shaq and Kobe were with the Lakers?" 

 

Not a tough question to answer for an analyst. 

 

Pretty much "Yes or no" and then say why.  Maybe he asked because these 2 teammates are the showcase players in the current Finals.     

 

Anyway, I'm over it.

[admo]

This has been a great NBA Finals and I am enjoying it a lot.

 

I think Miami has missed some makeable outside shots which could be the difference of games being closer or series being tied.  

 

The Nuggets look like the better team overall - among starters and bench players - and are playing like one of the best teams I have seen years.  Meaning, they are pretty deep and playing incredibly determined.