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TGHusker

Moore, Sessions, and the Dismissal of Mueller

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TGHusker    1,233

This link touches on a couple of topics and thought I'd break it out for us to follow - just in case it transpires.

 

 Long and short: 

Moore gets elected  > The Senate Expels him immediately > Bama Gov appoints replacement of Moore > that replacement is Jeff Sessions who held the seat prior to Moore>

Trump then appoints a new AG >  New AG can then shut down the Mueller investigation

 

Trump and Sessions have been on rocky grounds.  Trump had supported the other candidate.  The repubs in the Senate would prefer that the investigation would go away and they do not want Moore in their chamber.  How nice it would be to kill 2 birds wt one stone.  Devious minds at work behind the scenes.  :dunno

 

Summary article

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/roy-moore-mueller-investigation-roy-moore-sex-scandal/2017/11/14/id/826013/

 

Full article from Wash Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/11/14/how-the-roy-moore-scandal-could-help-president-trump-fire-robert-s-mueller-iii/?utm_term=.6ee6d271eed3

 

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knapplc    18,498

While Tribalism cannot be discounted, and it's possible Alabama voters just vote for Moore because he's a Republican, new polls are showing Democrat Doug Jones with a lead, having erased Moore's eight point lead (which in itself is astounding) before yesterday's 2nd underage accuser went public. 

 

Quote

 

Alabama Senate race a toss-up, new poll finds

 

Roy Moore, the Republican candidate for Senate in Alabama, has lost his lead in the race in the aftermath of allegations that he had sexual contact with teenagers years ago, and the election is now a toss-up, a new poll indicated Sunday.

 

Moore trails Democratic candidate Doug Jones 46% to 42% among Alabama voters, a lead for the Democrat that is well within the poll's margin of error of 4.1 points in either direction, according to the new survey by Louisiana-based JMC Analytics. That finding is consistent with two overnight polls that were released since the allegations first came to light Thursday.

 

Before the news broke, Moore had an eight-point lead in the race, reflecting Alabama's heavily Republican tilt. The election is scheduled for Dec. 12.

 

 

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TonyStalloni    565

I find it odd that when a half dozen women spoke out about Bill Clinton being a groping asshat they were called lying gold diggers but here come two women shortly before the election with similar claims about Roy Moore and their word is gospel.  I'm not saying he isn't guilty......just amused by the difference in response.

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Nebfanatic    839
12 minutes ago, TonyStalloni said:

I find it odd that when a half dozen women spoke out about Bill Clinton being a groping asshat they were called lying gold diggers but here come two women shortly before the election with similar claims about Roy Moore and their word is gospel.  I'm not saying he isn't guilty......just amused by the difference in response.

It's also nearly 20 years later. The women that accused Clinton were probably telling the truth. Times have fortunately changed really just very recently. We have a long way to go but hopefully this sudden shift in the culture can grow into a true change in the way we treat each other, especially women. 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/11/reckoning-with-bill-clintons-sex-crimes/545729/
 

A new story on this very topic 

Edited by Nebfanatic

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BigRedBuster    7,666
25 minutes ago, TonyStalloni said:

I find it odd that when a half dozen women spoke out about Bill Clinton being a groping asshat they were called lying gold diggers but here come two women shortly before the election with similar claims about Roy Moore and their word is gospel.  I'm not saying he isn't guilty......just amused by the difference in response.

 

I believed the women then and I believe them now.

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knapplc    18,498

This whole Bill Clinton thing is a straw man.  There is not some single homogeneous body who, in the 1990s, pardoned Bill Clinton but who are, in the 2010s, condemning Roy Moore.

 

I presume conservative media is promoting this story because an identical story - that George HW Bush was groping women and young girls - isn't as palatable to the conservative audience? 

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TGHusker    1,233

1.  Glad to see Knapp's post that Moore's opponent may end up winning this out right, tribalism or not, the story is starting to snowball wt Moore as the target.

2.  I also thought about that GHWB story - funny how that isn't going anywhere. Maybe we don't pick on a 90 year old man, with a wife that was the "June Cleaver" of presidential wives

3.  Another example of guilt complex at work maybe - we are seeing it in Oklahoma also wt a rash of sexual predator stories in the state legislature - it seems the people who cry out the loudest against certain cultural issues in political life lead a secret life behind the scenes.   Saying that, I don't want to broad brush all who 'cry out in the public square' against what they believe to be 'unrighteous' cultural trends - many hold those views closely and live it privately.  But far too often you see situations like this.  But as we've seen, Hollywood isn't immune to it either.  It seems that there are creditable accusations aimed at Moore but due to the age of when it occurred, there may never be a court date.  Which brings up another point that is troubling to me that I 'd like to get your take on ....

 

4.  Why aren't these accusations brought up earlier - in this situation, the situation wt Harvey Weinstein, etc.  Yes, I know that there is the sigma of being a victim of a sexual crime, the power situation that is involved - fear, intimidation, etc.   I bring up the two points below  not to exonerate anyone - as my gut tells me Moore is guilty and so is Harvey.   In both cases we are talking about female accusers.  I'm not a female and I don't pretend to know what it would be like to be in their shoes - esp 30-40 years ago in the case of Moore.  That was a different time and victims of sexual assault were often accused of 'having it coming' or "inviting it".  In the case of Weinstein, he held the power of employment over these ladies.  So when I say I wish these accusations were brought up earlier, I'm not blaming the women for not coming forward, I'm really saying "I wish our society was more open so that victims like these felt safe enough to bring forth the accusations as they occurred. Therefore, I'm blaming our society as a whole.   I'm not sure how our society can become that open.   

 

I see 2 troubling things with this

      4.A-  Justice isn't allowed to take its course - The victim never gets her/his day in court.  They live in agony for years until the issue is made public.  Other potential victims are exposed.

      4.B   Justice isn't allowed to take its course - The accused doesn't get his/her day in court.  They are tried in the court of public opinion and their career, reputation may be ruined on   trumped (pun intended) up charges for political reasons alone.  They live in agony from that day forward if the accusations really are false - the damage has been done.

 

So, how do we get real justice in this case?  Perhaps we don't due to the age of the accusations.  We may only get limited justice - Deny Moore the Senate seat, and attach to him the scarlet letter that will taint his reputation from this point forward. 

 

 

 

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dudeguyy    3,299

Should probably stop clogging up the Republican Utopia thread with Moore stuff. It's not fair to lump it onto them, because not even THEY want to own this guy.

 

OH COME ON! How much does Alabama need to see? This is from THEIR local media! This covers two new accusers.

 

 

 

 

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NM11046    1,931
1 hour ago, commando said:

i think i should buy 1 of these

 

b1uTiJhwR7ibJkpBq8qC5w.png

I think you should buy them in bulk and sell them via HB ... profits to go toward next quarters' fundraiser (or toward an anti-Trump politician of your choosing)

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QMany    2,945

ALSO: Ivanka Trump remains says nothing about her dad purposefully and without consent walked into Miss TEEN USA locker rooms where girls as young as 15 were changing.

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dudeguyy    3,299

 

This esstentially boils down to "I'm cool with endorsing child molestation as long as my team wins, and you should be, too."

 

The GOP has voluntarily hurled themselves off the moral high ground they pretend to occupy headfirst.

 

Hard to fathom this person leads an entire state.

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zoogs    6,230

Unfortunately, we live in the era of "but what if there are sexual assaulters who are Democrat Senators in states with Republican Governors? Let's not get too crazy, guys" actually making some of the rounds among liberals in media. It ultimately comes from a very similar place: yes, things are bad, but maybe if we can call them just a "little bad" we can focus instead on how much sweeping damage the other party would do in power. I mean, it is true that Republicans in power will do very much damage to everyone. Nonetheless...

 

 

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Nebfanatic    839
31 minutes ago, zoogs said:

Unfortunately, we live in the era of "but what if there are sexual assaulters who are Democrat Senators in states with Republican Governors? Let's not get too crazy, guys" actually making some of the rounds among liberals in media. It ultimately comes from a very similar place: yes, things are bad, but maybe if we can call them just a "little bad" we can focus instead on how much sweeping damage the other party would do in power. I mean, it is true that Republicans in power will do very much damage to everyone. Nonetheless...

 

 

If you want to win bring forth a canidate who isn't a scumbag. It seems as if a little investigating into Roy Moores past would have revealed pretty shady behavior. So why is he a canidate for your party in the first place? If this happens in the middle of the campaign or right before the election the right thing to do would surely be to take responsibility as a party for selecting a canidate who put them in this situation in the first place. Either party can't say "oh well we still need to win." You conceded that right when you selected a character such as Roy Moore to be their candidate. Obviously that's not how it works in the real world, but accountability needs to be the standard for these things. 

Edited by Nebfanatic

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dudeguyy    3,299
46 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

If you want to win bring forth a canidate who isn't a scumbag. It seems as if a little investigating into Roy Moores past would have revealed pretty shady behavior. So why is he a canidate for your party in the first place? If this happens in the middle of the campaign or right before the election the right thing to do would surely be to take responsibility as a party for selecting a canidate who put them in this situation in the first place. Either party can't say "oh well we still need to win." You conceded that right when you selected a character such as Roy Moore to be their candidate. Obviously that's not how it works in the real world, but accountability needs to be the standard for these things. 

 

Roy Moore is a perfect example of the fruits of Bannonism. I'll leave it up to others to decide whether following him and his merry band of men is a good idea. 

 

Regardless, this is the type of issue where we can't get fidgety or morally recalibrate depending on who's involved. If the accusation against Franken bears out or if more come forward, he should resign. Roy Moore shouldn't touch a U.S. Senate seat with a 30 foot pole. Lastly, Donald Trump should not be president of the United States. It still blows my mind that the accusations against him got swept under the rug.

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