Texas Cop, "Police Brutality", Black kids.

[teachercd]

http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/do-you-know-why-im-pulling-you-over-being-wildly-a-50916

That is awesome!!!

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Seems to me that the police are automatically guilty anymore, but amusing article regardless I suppose.

[Moiraine]

Seems to me that the police are automatically guilty anymore, but amusing article regardless I suppose.

 

Not according to the judicial system.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

According to the media and a percentage of the public, we are.

[Landlord]

Seems to me that the police are automatically guilty anymore, but amusing article regardless I suppose.

 

 

BRI I know it's not easy doing your job, and it can't be easy feeling lumped in with the bad ones and feeling like people unfairly attach you and every other cop into the stereotype.

 

Most cops are good. Not everyone thinks so, but I think most fair people understand that. It's also a profession where you probably don't get much praise for the things you do well but get a ton of criticism for the things you don't. My question is basically, is the way that our country handles the police force part of a foundation that leads to to the rare, yet still very existent, examples of bad, brutal and unchecked authority?

 

To analogize because I'm having a hard time communicating this well - I work in a church, and a lot of my life is plugged into evangelical Christian culture. It's rare that a lead pastor of a church has an affair, but it happens. I think those rare instances, even though percentage-wise they're not the norm, exist often enough to show that the way the American church operates is setting these people up for a higher risk of failure than there has to or should be. It's common that pastors are put on a pedestal, lonely, and struggling with depression because they're held to such a high standard and they don't feel like they're able to be honest and vulnerable with people about their struggles. Most of them are able to navigate this, but the foundational structure doesn't do them any favors.

 

So can we "do" police better? Are there ways that we can reform the way they're trained, the way their jobs work, the acceptance rate, the public relations, or whatever other element, to do better with this, and to cut down on these really rare, but ugly, occurrences?

 

 

 

I don't hate police whatsoever; have never had any animosity towards cops as a whole. But I think we HAVE to start figuring out ways to lessen the amount of unarmed citizens being killed, the amount of unnecessary escalations of situations, and the amount of people that are being victimized because the police force has all of the power in certain situations. That's my outside perspective, so I'm interested in your thoughts because obviously I don't have first-hand knowledge or experience.

 

I just pray to see less people end up dead when there was no reason they had to.

[Mavric]

So ignore the media, and ignore the "cop haters." BRI, you know I'm not a cop hater, we've talked about my mom, and you know I'm not against the police.

 

This arrest was wrong. That officer should have just given her a ticket and moved on. She didn't need to be arrested.

 

I haven't made it all the way through the video but I don't think saying the arrest was wrong is accurate. The officer could have done things differently. I don't think it had to happen that way. But he also gave her several chances to drop it and instead she just kept piling it on.

 

I think you may be assuming he was going to arrest her as soon as he asked her to get out of the car. I'm not sure that's a proper assumption. I don't think that was a necessary step but I don't think he was necessarily going to arrest her at that point either. But then the confrontation became physical and at that point the arrest was warranted, imo.

 

Definitely both parties at fault. I guess we can argue as to who bears more of the blame but it's fairly equal as far as I have seen so far. It's easy to say "he should have ignored her actions" but that's kind of a cop out (no pun intended).

[Minnesota_husker]

Watched most of it and think the cop let his ego get in the way. She was being argumentative and he was trying to show "he was the boss". Once he told her to get out of the car, things hit a breaking point. He couldnt back off that and show weakness and yet he didnt have a reason to detain her. She asked legit questions and it seems like her rights were infringed upon.

 

HOWEVER. she became combative and was fighting him, which furthered the issue. I would say that he was out of line but how she started to act towards him created even more issues.

 

 

This all being said. She sounds like an emotionally unstable person who probably was going to lose the job she just got because of this issue. That alongside being stuck in a cell to sit and stew and think most likely was too much for her to handle.

 

It is tragic that she killed herself, and tragic things got to this point, but it isnt some sort of cover up. She got physical with a police officer and was arrested. While in jail she killed herself.

 

 

BRI knows what it is like to deal with people like this, who fight you ever step of the way. This officer didnt handle it well, but neither did the "victim".

 

It was a situation that snowballed and got even worse later on.

[Street Novelist]

I don't know why white men continue to become police officers. I don't care how much they're paying you. It just isn't worth it. Let the blacks and latins sign up. Let's see who they have to blame when the officers are no longer white.

[knapplc]

 

So ignore the media, and ignore the "cop haters." BRI, you know I'm not a cop hater, we've talked about my mom, and you know I'm not against the police.

 

This arrest was wrong. That officer should have just given her a ticket and moved on. She didn't need to be arrested.

 

I haven't made it all the way through the video but I don't think saying the arrest was wrong is accurate. The officer could have done things differently. I don't think it had to happen that way. But he also gave her several chances to drop it and instead she just kept piling it on.

 

I think you may be assuming he was going to arrest her as soon as he asked her to get out of the car. I'm not sure that's a proper assumption. I don't think that was a necessary step but I don't think he was necessarily going to arrest her at that point either. But then the confrontation became physical and at that point the arrest was warranted, imo.

 

Definitely both parties at fault. I guess we can argue as to who bears more of the blame but it's fairly equal as far as I have seen so far. It's easy to say "he should have ignored her actions" but that's kind of a cop out (no pun intended).

 

 

 

The only thing I'm assuming is that a belligerent attitude on the part of a citizen is not enough to allow a police officer to arrest them for a minor traffic violation.

 

She failed to use her turn signal. No matter how crabby or grumpy she was about it, she did not need to be arrested as a result of that conversation. The officer needed to write her a ticket and move on with his day, period, end of story. At no point should he have allowed her civil liberties to take a back seat to his ego. He was upset she was being an ass, and he arrested her.

 

If we're OK with police arresting us because we have a bad attitude, we're no longer able to claim this as "the land of the free." That's a huge, huge, huge step to take.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Can the police do a better job? Certainly, we can always do a better job and grow as a profession or we aren't moving forward. The police aren't the only problem though and that doesn't seem to be sinking in to some folks.

 

The police are policing the way they are due to the way society is acting. This isn't Mayberry anymore, unfortunately, and that is not a policing problem alone, it's a societal problem as well.

 

Criminals are becoming more bold and daring and officers lose their lives every single year because of those criminals actions. If an "unarmed" individual attempts to take my weapon from me, which statistics show a large number of officers are killed with their own service weapon, the courts and the law state that I can use deadly force in that situation, period. I may not depending on several circumstances, but that decision is made in seconds. Not minutes, not hours, not days, months, etc. Seconds......

 

Want to change the law? Petition your legislators for changes, but be prepared for a mass exodus of police officers if it is changed to the point that basically sets us up for death. Then prepare to TRY and fill those positions as people aren't lining up like they used to for these jobs. Notice I said IF it is changed to a certain point, just staying ahead of those that will attempt to twist those words to fit their agenda.

 

Some of you should apply to a citizens academy in your area or do a ride along so you can see some of the situations we face. It's easy to second guess and arm chair QB things when you aren't being put in those situations.

[Landlord]

 

The only thing I'm assuming is that a belligerent attitude on the part of a citizen is not enough to allow a police officer to arrest them for a minor traffic violation.

 

She failed to use her turn signal. No matter how crabby or grumpy she was about it, she did not need to be arrested as a result of that conversation. The officer needed to write her a ticket and move on with his day, period, end of story. At no point should he have allowed her civil liberties to take a back seat to his ego. He was upset she was being an ass, and he arrested her.

 

If we're OK with police arresting us because we have a bad attitude, we're no longer able to claim this as "the land of the free." That's a huge, huge, huge step to take.

 

 

 

This is where I fall as well. If both parties are not helping the situation equally, then the blame falls on the party who has the power and control, and who's job it is to be in control of the situation.

 

Defending that blame with, "Yeah but she wasn't helping either" is weak because we don't hold civilians to the standards that we hold law enforcement.

[Mavric]

 

 

So ignore the media, and ignore the "cop haters." BRI, you know I'm not a cop hater, we've talked about my mom, and you know I'm not against the police.

 

This arrest was wrong. That officer should have just given her a ticket and moved on. She didn't need to be arrested.

 

I haven't made it all the way through the video but I don't think saying the arrest was wrong is accurate. The officer could have done things differently. I don't think it had to happen that way. But he also gave her several chances to drop it and instead she just kept piling it on.

 

I think you may be assuming he was going to arrest her as soon as he asked her to get out of the car. I'm not sure that's a proper assumption. I don't think that was a necessary step but I don't think he was necessarily going to arrest her at that point either. But then the confrontation became physical and at that point the arrest was warranted, imo.

 

Definitely both parties at fault. I guess we can argue as to who bears more of the blame but it's fairly equal as far as I have seen so far. It's easy to say "he should have ignored her actions" but that's kind of a cop out (no pun intended).

 

 

 

The only thing I'm assuming is that a belligerent attitude on the part of a citizen is not enough to allow a police officer to arrest them for a minor traffic violation.

 

She failed to use her turn signal. No matter how crabby or grumpy she was about it, she did not need to be arrested as a result of that conversation. The officer needed to write her a ticket and move on with his day, period, end of story. At no point should he have allowed her civil liberties to take a back seat to his ego. He was upset she was being an ass, and he arrested her.

 

If we're OK with police arresting us because we have a bad attitude, we're no longer able to claim this as "the land of the free." That's a huge, huge, huge step to take.

 

 

I agree. But that's what I'm saying. I don't think he had any intention of arresting her for being crabby or grumpy. I'm not even sure he was planning to arrest her when he told her to get out of the car. We simply don't know at what point he decided to arrest her. But after there was a physical altercation, she deserved to be arrested. Could he have handled the situation differently to prevent that? Absolutely. But she could have as well.

[knapplc]

In 2011, 72 law enforcement officers were killed in the line of duty. Three of those killed were shot by their own weapon. That's 4% of all officers killed in 2011. That's not a "large number." ONE officer killed (let alone killed with their own weapon) is too many, but let's not exaggerate the numbers here.

 

Unfortunately, the United States and the various police forces across the country don't keep track of how many people are killed by the police every year. An article in the Washington Post quotes Jim Fisher, a former FBI agent and criminal justice professor, who states that in 2011 607 people were fatally shot by the Police - to the best of his ability to track down data.

 

So yes, it's dangerous for the police out there. Too dangerous. But it's statistically far more dangerous for citizens to be involved with the police than for the police to be involved with citizens.

[knapplc]

 

 

 

So ignore the media, and ignore the "cop haters." BRI, you know I'm not a cop hater, we've talked about my mom, and you know I'm not against the police.

 

This arrest was wrong. That officer should have just given her a ticket and moved on. She didn't need to be arrested.

 

I haven't made it all the way through the video but I don't think saying the arrest was wrong is accurate. The officer could have done things differently. I don't think it had to happen that way. But he also gave her several chances to drop it and instead she just kept piling it on.

 

I think you may be assuming he was going to arrest her as soon as he asked her to get out of the car. I'm not sure that's a proper assumption. I don't think that was a necessary step but I don't think he was necessarily going to arrest her at that point either. But then the confrontation became physical and at that point the arrest was warranted, imo.

 

Definitely both parties at fault. I guess we can argue as to who bears more of the blame but it's fairly equal as far as I have seen so far. It's easy to say "he should have ignored her actions" but that's kind of a cop out (no pun intended).

 

 

 

The only thing I'm assuming is that a belligerent attitude on the part of a citizen is not enough to allow a police officer to arrest them for a minor traffic violation.

 

She failed to use her turn signal. No matter how crabby or grumpy she was about it, she did not need to be arrested as a result of that conversation. The officer needed to write her a ticket and move on with his day, period, end of story. At no point should he have allowed her civil liberties to take a back seat to his ego. He was upset she was being an ass, and he arrested her.

 

If we're OK with police arresting us because we have a bad attitude, we're no longer able to claim this as "the land of the free." That's a huge, huge, huge step to take.

 

 

I agree. But that's what I'm saying. I don't think he had any intention of arresting her for being crabby or grumpy. I'm not even sure he was planning to arrest her when he told her to get out of the car. We simply don't know at what point he decided to arrest her. But after there was a physical altercation, she deserved to be arrested. Could he have handled the situation differently to prevent that? Absolutely. But she could have as well.

 

 

The physical altercation should never have happened, though. That's the problem here - at zero point in that situation should it ever, ever, ever have escalated to that point. The officer is the person escalating that, not the citizen. The citizen is a crabby a-hole. That does not give the officer permission to escalate it, or to ultimately arrest her.

 

Had he simply written the ticket and left, she would not have been arrested. The person with the control in that situation was the officer, period.

 

Her attitude, her belligerence, has zero bearing on that. The fault lies with the officer because he was in control of the situation at all times.

[Mavric]

 

 

 

 

So ignore the media, and ignore the "cop haters." BRI, you know I'm not a cop hater, we've talked about my mom, and you know I'm not against the police.

 

This arrest was wrong. That officer should have just given her a ticket and moved on. She didn't need to be arrested.

 

I haven't made it all the way through the video but I don't think saying the arrest was wrong is accurate. The officer could have done things differently. I don't think it had to happen that way. But he also gave her several chances to drop it and instead she just kept piling it on.

 

I think you may be assuming he was going to arrest her as soon as he asked her to get out of the car. I'm not sure that's a proper assumption. I don't think that was a necessary step but I don't think he was necessarily going to arrest her at that point either. But then the confrontation became physical and at that point the arrest was warranted, imo.

 

Definitely both parties at fault. I guess we can argue as to who bears more of the blame but it's fairly equal as far as I have seen so far. It's easy to say "he should have ignored her actions" but that's kind of a cop out (no pun intended).

 

 

 

The only thing I'm assuming is that a belligerent attitude on the part of a citizen is not enough to allow a police officer to arrest them for a minor traffic violation.

 

She failed to use her turn signal. No matter how crabby or grumpy she was about it, she did not need to be arrested as a result of that conversation. The officer needed to write her a ticket and move on with his day, period, end of story. At no point should he have allowed her civil liberties to take a back seat to his ego. He was upset she was being an ass, and he arrested her.

 

If we're OK with police arresting us because we have a bad attitude, we're no longer able to claim this as "the land of the free." That's a huge, huge, huge step to take.

 

 

I agree. But that's what I'm saying. I don't think he had any intention of arresting her for being crabby or grumpy. I'm not even sure he was planning to arrest her when he told her to get out of the car. We simply don't know at what point he decided to arrest her. But after there was a physical altercation, she deserved to be arrested. Could he have handled the situation differently to prevent that? Absolutely. But she could have as well.

 

 

The physical altercation should never have happened, though. That's the problem here - at zero point in that situation should it ever, ever, ever have escalated to that point. The officer is the person escalating that, not the citizen. The citizen is a crabby a-hole. That does not give the officer permission to escalate it, or to ultimately arrest her.

 

Had he simply written the ticket and left, she would not have been arrested. The person with the control in that situation was the officer, period.

 

Her attitude, her belligerence, has zero bearing on that. The fault lies with the officer because he was in control of the situation at all times.

 

 

I guess we'll disagree on that. I don't think people in a position of authority should be expected to be treated in such a manner. Again, that doesn't take away the responsibility he bares, but to totally discount her fault in the situation is not right, imo. She could just as easily have avoided the escalation.

 

I agree with you that she should not have been arrested as a result of a traffic stop. But that's ignoring most of what took place in this situation.