The Repub Debate

[zoogs]

I don't think you have to be a member of either party (I'm not, and don't intend to become one). I guess the distinction I want to draw is between being independent, and being neutral/indifferent between the two major parties. They're not even close to being the same.

I mean, we just see this refrain again and again, recently. The Party of Lincoln has become some mad parody of itself in their waning days, and ever the popular appeal: "But both sides!"

[knapplc]

Me & HuskerShark are over here looking askance at you, zoogs.

[Guy Chamberlin]

 

Bush's response to Katrina was total negligence to a very specific duty - providing aid to citizens in distress. The response was muddled and delayed, and people died.

 

Just about any way you parse it, it's comparable. I can't imagine why anyone would think it isn't - except for the fact that Bush was a Republican, and Hillary is a Democrat.

 

Wow, you do see things through Blue Donkey-Colored glasses. There is no comparison. Katrina is something that the country had a week's notice about, and that initially it appeared the levies would hold. I am the first to admit that Bush's initial response could have been better, but both political parties (including the idiotic mayor and governor at the time) was less than ideal. Counter that with the situation in Benghazi where ambassador Steven's had been asking for a YEAR for additional security, and Hillary did nothing about it. On top of that, after the attacks, she lied to the families and American people about why those 4 men were killed, and continues to lie to this day.

 

 

Well that's....selective.

 

Republicans cut hundreds of millions of dollars slated for security at U.S. Embassies and consulates after gaining control of the House in 2011, around the same time they were protecting tax breaks for millionaires. That's hardly on Hillary.

 

If you want to excuse all the unnecessary death and mayhem Bush unleashed in general and just measure against Benghazi, there were 13 attacks on embassies and consulates during the Bush administration and 60 deaths, all of which raised zero outrage by the people who refuse to let Behngazi die.

 

There were two major investigations headed by Republicans. The results are here. They've been available for years. You don't like these facts. I get that. They're still facts.

 

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/boehner-and-benghazi/

Obama and Hillary could have handled it better. But they could never have handled it to your satisfaction because that's just how things work these days.

The Katrina comparison is a little awkward, but it was more avoidable and more tragic than Benghazi.

Terribly sad that Ambassodor Stevens was killed in the line of duty. But make no mistake, he understood the duty. Stevens willfully took the job of operating a CIA front out of a U.S. Embassy in one of the most dangerous cities in the world, in a country the U.S. was actively disrupting. That's a bad day in a nasty business, not a tragedy.

[cm husker]

The biggest Bush scandals were, in no particular order:

 

The Iraq War

The Patriot Act

Hurricane Katrina response

Halliburton

Scooter Libby

 

These are just off the top of my head. Every major political figure of the last couple of centuries has been tied to numerous scandals, including every Republican and Democrat president and major presidential candidate. Most of these are overblown, over-politicized nonsense, but some of them (like Watergate, like the Iraq War) are legitimate scandals.

 

Basically, if someone can't remember George W. Bush's scandals they're either not trying or don't understand how to use google.

I count three of those five having bipartisan support. Hard to call a collective decision a scandal.

 

You'll have to connect the dots on Halliburton before calling it a bush scandal.

[AR Husker Fan]

The biggest Bush scandals were, in no particular order:

 

The Iraq War

The Patriot Act

Hurricane Katrina response

Halliburton

Scooter Libby

 

These are just off the top of my head. Every major political figure of the last couple of centuries has been tied to numerous scandals, including every Republican and Democrat president and major presidential candidate. Most of these are overblown, over-politicized nonsense, but some of them (like Watergate, like the Iraq War) are legitimate scandals.

 

Basically, if someone can't remember George W. Bush's scandals they're either not trying or don't understand how to use google.

 

The first that comes to mind for me is the Medicare Part D Pharmaceutical Act. Written by pharmaceutical lobbyists who were massive supporters of Bush, with virtually no congressional input, and one of the biggest increases in entitlement programs in history. Bush essentially strong-armed members of his administration to falsify the projected costs in order to ensure passage.

 

One good article about it is by Bruce Bartlett, who was in the Bush administration. To quote from the article:

 

 

 

Ten years ago this week, Republicans enacted the largest expansion of the welfare state since the creation of Medicare in 1965 by adding a huge unfunded program providing coverage for prescription drugs to the Medicare program.

 

******

 

Through 2012, Medicare Part D added $318 billion to the national debt (see “General Revenue” on Page 111 in the 2013 Medicare trustees report). That same report projects that Medicare Part D will add $852 billion to the debt over the next 10 years.

[teachercd]

Remember when Bush made Hurricane Katrina happen?

[ZRod]

Remember when Bush made Hurricane Katrina happen?

Remeber when you didn't troll this sub forum?

[QMany]

 

Remember when Bush made Hurricane Katrina happen?

Remeber when you didn't troll this sub forum?

To be fair, it is not just this sub forum that he trolls.

[teachercd]

 

 

Remember when Bush made Hurricane Katrina happen?

Remeber when you didn't troll this sub forum?

To be fair, it is not just this sub forum that he trolls.

I am an equal opportunity type of person!

[BigRedBuster]

Hurricane Katrina and Benghazi are interesting examples to compare. In many ways they are not similar but in some ways they are.

 

Republicans have constantly tried to tie the entire fault of Benghazi to Obama and even more so Clinton and they have gone way over board with accusations that are preposterous all for political gain.

 

The same thing happened with Katrina. There were people claiming Bush wanted black people to die and that's why he didn't send in the military to help. I even remember seeing some whack jobs believing that some how he and the American government made Katrina happen to kill black people. Or....he had the levy purposely blown up so black people would die.

 

In reality, almost the entire issue was caused by the pathetic government in the state of Louisiana and New Orleans. The federal government asked a number of times if they needed help and Louisiana and New Orleans said no. It is against the law for the President to send the military into a state without the consent of that state. If I remember correctly, the state government actually admitted the fault was at their feet. But...hey.....political hacks aren't going to let that stop them.

 

Could have FEMA done better? Sure. But, much of what Bush was criticized for was BS.

[Danny Bateman]

Hurricane Katrina and Benghazi are interesting examples to compare. In many ways they are not similar but in some ways they are.

 

Republicans have constantly tried to tie the entire fault of Benghazi to Obama and even more so Clinton and they have gone way over board with accusations that are preposterous all for political gain.

 

The same thing happened with Katrina. There were people claiming Bush wanted black people to die and that's why he didn't send in the military to help. I even remember seeing some whack jobs believing that some how he and the American government made Katrina happen to kill black people. Or....he had the levy purposely blown up so black people would die.

 

In reality, almost the entire issue was caused by the pathetic government in the state of Louisiana and New Orleans. The federal government asked a number of times if they needed help and Louisiana and New Orleans said no. It is against the law for the President to send the military into a state without the consent of that state. If I remember correctly, the state government actually admitted the fault was at their feet. But...hey.....political hacks aren't going to let that stop them.

 

Could have FEMA done better? Sure. But, much of what Bush was criticized for was BS.

 

 

That look on Myers' face gets me every time.

[teachercd]

Hurricane Katrina and Benghazi are interesting examples to compare. In many ways they are not similar but in some ways they are.

 

Republicans have constantly tried to tie the entire fault of Benghazi to Obama and even more so Clinton and they have gone way over board with accusations that are preposterous all for political gain.

 

The same thing happened with Katrina. There were people claiming Bush wanted black people to die and that's why he didn't send in the military to help. I even remember seeing some whack jobs believing that some how he and the American government made Katrina happen to kill black people. Or....he had the levy purposely blown up so black people would die.

 

In reality, almost the entire issue was caused by the pathetic government in the state of Louisiana and New Orleans. The federal government asked a number of times if they needed help and Louisiana and New Orleans said no. It is against the law for the President to send the military into a state without the consent of that state. If I remember correctly, the state government actually admitted the fault was at their feet. But...hey.....political hacks aren't going to let that stop them.

 

Could have FEMA done better? Sure. But, much of what Bush was criticized for was BS.

Thank you!

 

And yes, NO is horrible..look at their school systems!

[Guy Chamberlin]

So then let's forget about Katrina and simply compare consulate deaths under Bush to consulate deaths under Obama.

 

Then let's just forget the whole thing, because really bad sh#t happens under everyone's watch.

 

Here's one nobody likes to talk about: Obama has been an absolute beast in the War on Terror, taking out far more high-profile terrorists than the Bush administration ever did.

 

But that requires conservatives to accept that Obama has been both aggressive and successful in persecuting our Islamic enemies.

 

And it requires liberals to accept that Obama has been pursuing ongoing, unchecked drone warfare that kills far more innocents than high-profile terrorists, a strategy that would have drawn outrage under Bush.

 

Discuss.

[knapplc]

Hurricane Katrina and Benghazi are interesting examples to compare. In many ways they are not similar but in some ways they are.

 

Republicans have constantly tried to tie the entire fault of Benghazi to Obama and even more so Clinton and they have gone way over board with accusations that are preposterous all for political gain.

 

The same thing happened with Katrina. There were people claiming Bush wanted black people to die and that's why he didn't send in the military to help. I even remember seeing some whack jobs believing that some how he and the American government made Katrina happen to kill black people. Or....he had the levy purposely blown up so black people would die.

 

In reality, almost the entire issue was caused by the pathetic government in the state of Louisiana and New Orleans. The federal government asked a number of times if they needed help and Louisiana and New Orleans said no. It is against the law for the President to send the military into a state without the consent of that state. If I remember correctly, the state government actually admitted the fault was at their feet. But...hey.....political hacks aren't going to let that stop them.

 

Could have FEMA done better? Sure. But, much of what Bush was criticized for was BS.

Agreed. FEMA didn't respond to Katrina well at all, but the preposterous claims that Bush intentionally did harm to Louisiana/New Orleans just blew my mind. The levee being intentionally blown up to harm Bush's opponents was some of the dumbest whack job nuttery since the 9/11 "Loose Change" nutters had hold of the internet.

 

Bush was a deeply flawed president, and did a lot of harm to the country through what I believe were good intentions. But it was sometimes all I could do not to punch my computer screen at the idiocy being thrown his way.

 

I guess it was good practice for the Obama presidency.

[Danny Bateman]

So then let's forget about Katrina and simply compare consulate deaths under Bush to consulate deaths under Obama.

 

Then let's just forget the whole thing, because really bad sh#t happens under everyone's watch.

 

Here's one nobody likes to talk about: Obama has been an absolute beast in the War on Terror, taking out far more high-profile terrorists than the Bush administration ever did.

 

But that requires conservatives to accept that Obama has been both aggressive and successful in persecuting our Islamic enemies.

 

And it requires liberals to accept that Obama has been pursuing ongoing, unchecked drone warfare that kills far more innocents than high-profile terrorists, a strategy that would have drawn outrage under Bush.

 

Discuss.

 

A lot of them still want to blame Bill for not killing Bin Laden. So, I don't know that that's going to happen anytime soon...

 

I don't know a whole heck of a lot about drones. I could certainly see that they could cause lots of collateral damage. I'd think that conservatives would like the fact that he's trying to keep troops safe by utilizing drone strikes instead, but they mostly seem to just want to lambaste him for leading a weak war on terror. Personally, I appreciate his careful, safe approach, even though it's a damn shame that drone strikes are dangerous to civilians. Hopefully we find ways to continue to improve safety.