The General Election

[funhusker]

 

I'm curious on those who are in a "wait & see" stage regarding the legal trouble Trump has/is facing with lack of payment to vendors and employees. What exactly are you waiting to see? The USA Today story was very diligently investigated, all the news outlets (including Fox) are now running with it. The 3500 lawsuits are public knowledge - and I believe they are separate from the 1500 related to Trump University.

I have an inherent distrust of such articles, especially during campaign season.

 

Call it the Duke Rape Case hangover. I was sure those guys were guilty, because the details in the well-researched article were overwhelming. Then the truth came out and I felt like an idiot. I'm trying not to make that mistake again.

 

If it turns out the story is true, my patience on the due diligence and waiting for Trump's response won't have harmed anyone.

 

I know what you saying, Knapp, but these cases DO exist. That is what the article(s) is about. In a previous post you mentioned Trumps focus on the "bottom line" and these tactics might have been the cheaper option for him. I agree with that; I believe he defaulted on payments for financial reasons.

 

What is going to "come to light" after these stories is which scenario is true: 1) Trump is a greedy businessman with zero ethics and looking to maximize his investments no matter the impact on others, 2) Trump isn't as successful as he claims, and was forced to "negotiate" lower costs to stay in business himself, 3) Trump is broke and doesn't have the money at all, 4) he isn't a good "businessman" at all and completely forgot to pay a bunch of people and to try and save face he opts to look like a super shrewd negotiator, or 5) something else.

 

No matter what, Trump knows these claims exist and I'm guessing he was hoping they wouldn't come up. The interesting part is how he will try to defend it in a way that will fall in line with the "character" of Donald Trump: Successful Businessman and Presidential Nominee.

[ZRod]

 

 

 

 

 

Is it surprising to anyone that Donald Trump not only had multiple affairs with married women -- while married himself -- he saw fit to brag about it in his autobiography?

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/27/christians-cringe-at-donald-trump-s-sexy-past.html

 

Don't care, myself, but Republicans and evangelical Christians might want to start scuttling off that moral high ground.

 

I have no idea why Trump won or tied the Evangelical vote in many of the primaries as I would prefer someone with a better personal compass. With that said, I do expect many of those Evangelicals who did not support him in the primaries to get on board as we are down to two deeply flawed candidates, and Trump at least offers a chance to reverse the negative direction this country has been on for years. Hillary will simply offer more of the same. Thus, I do now expect many of those Evangelicals that did not support Trump in the primary to get on board the Trump train.

Seriously. I need a Republican to walk me through the negatives that define the negative direction we're heading down, so we can figure out how they happened, how to stop them and/or whether they are actually bad.

 

And I need a good Christian to help me figure out why so many followers of Christ are opposed to feeding the hungry, helping the sick and loving thy neighbor, and instead support candidates who embrace guns, wage war and invite the money lenders INTO the temple.

You are starting to sound like Trump by making extreme outlandish statements as a starting point for debating points. With that said, I will take the bait.

 

Regarding the negative direction we are facing, here are my 4 biggest concerns facing our nation.

 

1. ISIS-As I pointed out in another thread, according to Obama's own CIA director, ISIS has grown 4400% under his watch. While he's taken out Bin Laden and other terror targets, we face a greater threat against terrorism today then when he took office.

 

2. Economic growth/Jobs-Obama certainly inherited a tough economic climate when he took office, so it's great that we've seen some improvement, but to me there is so much more possibility with our economy, and under his watch, more people have actually stopped working and dropped out of the labor force (meaning they are more dependent on social services), and the labor participation rate is the lowest since the Carter days. I would note that of all the past 5 Presidents, I think Reagan, Bush 43, and Obama inherited the worst situations, while Bush 41 and Clinton inherited the best. To me Bush 43 had the most difficult climate his first year dealing with a recession that Clinton left him, the Enron scandal and collapsing financial markets, and then 9/11. Anyone who would expect to see positive economic metrics (jobs, GDP growth) in his first 3 years in office simply is not being realistic.

 

http://dailysignal.com/2012/09/07/two-huge-flaws-in-the-legend-of-the-clinton-economy/

 

3. National Debt-Members of both parties are to blame for our national debt, but CBO predictions show that the rise in national debt in the coming years is going to explode even more than it has the past 10 years. Obamacare has made this rise in national debt worse.

 

4. Racial Tensions-Under Obama's watch, Racial Tensions have gotten worse, whether its the Ferguson Riots or the Baltimore riots or other acts. Polling supports that racial tensions have gotten worse. I liked what Obama said in 2008 that we are one America, and he would bring us together, but instead he's done the opposite, taking a divided nation and making it more divided.

 

As for your comments about Christians, that's just ridiculous. I know we attend church every week and participate in programs to feed the hungry both in the US and around the world. We are constantly doing reachout activities to our local communities. And that is common across many Christian denominations. The difference is that Christian Conservatives do not feel its the Government's role to provide for all. Does this mean that the government should provide no social services...no, but when asked about increasing the size of government to pay for more citizens to be dependent on government, most Christians and Conservatives in general are going to oppose that.

 

I could pose the same question to you. Hillary and Obama claim to be Christian. If that is the case, why are they proponents of abortion. I heard Hillary say in a speech a few weeks ago "I'm Pro-abortion."

As for #2.....

 

Our financial situation was so dire when the took over that it was going to take time to pull us out. Yes, at one time, the labor participation rate was extremely low. However, recently there have been jobs reports where the jobs created high but the unemployment stayed the same. This is because many of those people who had given up looking actually came back into the work force again. It was a phenomena that the economists were perplexed by for a short time because they hadn't seen it that much before.

 

Many of the things that happen in an economy can't be viewed as.....ah...ha.......that President caused that. It doesn't happen in a vacuum like that.

 

Right now our unemployment rate is at the lowest it's been in quite a while and that's after a portion of unemployed came back into the work force.

 

Honestly......our industry is buzzing along at a rate that we haven't seen since 2006. When we discuss sales volumes we are absolutely pleasantly shocked at how we have done in the last 12-18 months. It actually started getting better about 4-5 years ago. But, this year it has just exploded.

 

Now, I know living in middle Nebraska, our unemployment rate really never went up that much and we are pretty much the lowest in the nation. But, our biggest problem right now is we can't find people.

 

So.....I have a hard time ranting about how horrible our economy is.

 

 

As for #4....

 

What do you attribute the racial tensions to? If I remember correctly, the riots you listed were direct results of police officers doing some pretty horrible things.

Regarding the first item you bolded, you are suggesting that we should not attribute good and bed economies to Presidents, so when Hillary makes the silly claim that the economy is better under Democrats, she is misleading again? Would you agree with that? As for the labor participation rate, it continues to remain at historic lows. The unemployment rate as its typically reported is typically useless. A more fair measure would be the underemployment rate that includes those who are not fully employed as well as those who have left the work force. The underemployment rate when Bush was in office in his 2nd term was around 7.5% prior to the world financial collapse. It shot up to near 17% late in 2009 toward 2010, which I would not attribute to Obama, but it still remains near 14%, nearly double the pre-financial collapse underemployment rate.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=historical+underemployment+rate&rlz=1C1AFAB_enUS504US535&biw=1164&bih=759&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7_9qm5p3NAhULGlIKHb4oB-cQ_AUIBygC#imgrc=LPgC6Akw4Y_HrM%3A

 

As for Nebraska, it's a red state and is buzzing like Texas and other red states with jobs. I lived in Nebraska for a few years and loved it due to the business-friendly climate. It's not representative of the nation however.

 

Regarding racial tensions, that's a complete joke to blame the cops for all racial tensions. With the Ferguson riots, there was ample evidence that Darren Wilson was acting in self-defense, yet the left extremists were looking for a reason to create riots, and the media (including Fox) fueled what might happen, and as the city of Ferguson was on fire, those leftists figured fueling the fire were suddenly realizing what had happened. I'm not saying every cop is innocent, and there are some dumb cops out there, but the President could have issued more harsh words to his fellow African Americans that its not ok to burn a city down in protest. When Black Lives Matter protesters were chanting they wanted dead cops, Obama sat silently and refused to condemn them. I think this article highlights those racial tensions and I frankly feel that is a big reason why Donald Trump was so successful in the primaries.

 

http://nypost.com/2016/01/17/how-obama-has-turned-back-the-clock-on-race-relations/

Do the work force participation numbers account for thise that went to college full time, or baby boomers retiring in droves? Because both of those groups are usually considered to be in the working force pool.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Some random thoughts:

 

Gun and ammunition sales skyrocketed when Obama was elected in 2008 and have continued throughout his presidency. None of Obama's actually policies have threatened gun ownership or fueled racial tensions. I think there's just an ugly and primitive undercurrent in this country that got exposed.

 

There has been a 16% drop in violent crime during the Obama administration, a pretty significant number. Let's say we don't give Obama any credit for that, it would still be something to celebrate. Why don't more people celebrate that fact? It would mean something good happened during the Obama administration.

 

Same thing with the economy and employment; there are certainly numbers to celebrate, especially considering the genuinely staggering math involved in the 2008 global credit meltdown, from which the U.S. emerged far better than most countries. If someone else was President, the revival of the American automotive industry alone would be an inspirational story recited endlessly on Fox News. Truth is, you could give credit to the resilient can-do spirit of American free enterprise and a pat on the back to the federal government's support at the same time. It wouldn't kill anybody.

 

Same thing with foreign policy. It's very easy to envision a Bush, McCain or Romney administration taking the same line as the Obama administration in virtually every theater and crisis -- the same Cautious Saber Rattling 101 that everyone practices. It's also easy to envision Bush doing something much worse, because he did, and Donald Trump really doesn't translate well in these scenarios.

 

But it is true that you have to temper blame and credit for Presidents. People have been swayed by gas prices during elections, which is ridiculous. America's foreign policy path was set decades ago, as was our economic engine. It's true that slightly improved labor numbers don't tell the whole story, so withhold credit there, but it's also very hard to locate an Obama administration action or inaction to blame for the larger issue. Our stagnant labor force has been a couple generations in the making, and you don't need to look farther than the Jobs Providers who have shipped jobs overseas, tucked all their new wealth into foreign accounts and both expect and demand executive compensation exponentially higher than any time in America's past.

 

And because rich people can buy messages and messengers, we now have hard-working Americans feeling sorry for billionaires.

 

It's f'ing nuts.

 

There are a few numbers here:

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/01/obamas-numbers-january-2016-update/

[Guy Chamberlin]

And I'm happy for Nebraska enjoying economic prosperity and security. Good people, decent education and low cost of living will do that.

 

But on behalf of the high cost of living, business-unfriendly, regulation-crazed, hyper-liberal San Francisco Bay Area, we somehow remain the most successful entrepreneurial free-enterprise culture in the world, and continue to deliver waayyyyy more than our share to the American economy.

 

It takes all kinds in this crazy quilt democracy of ours, eh?

[BigRedBuster]

And...as far as Nebraska doing well and the rest of the country still hurting.

 

Our company sells 85-90% of it's products out of state. I honestly can not think of an area of the country that isn't seeing big increases in shipments this year over last. And, some of our biggest markets are in areas that were devastated in 2007-2010. New England, Long Island, Florida, California...etc.

 

So.....again....I have a hard time seeing this economy as something horrible.

[BigRedBuster]

 

Regarding racial tensions, that's a complete joke to blame the cops for all racial tensions. With the Ferguson riots, there was ample evidence that Darren Wilson was acting in self-defense, yet the left extremists were looking for a reason to create riots, and the media (including Fox) fueled what might happen, and as the city of Ferguson was on fire, those leftists figured fueling the fire were suddenly realizing what had happened. I'm not saying every cop is innocent, and there are some dumb cops out there, but the President could have issued more harsh words to his fellow African Americans that its not ok to burn a city down in protest. When Black Lives Matter protesters were chanting they wanted dead cops, Obama sat silently and refused to condemn them. I think this article highlights those racial tensions and I frankly feel that is a big reason why Donald Trump was so successful in the primaries.

 

http://nypost.com/2016/01/17/how-obama-has-turned-back-the-clock-on-race-relations/

 

The problems in Ferguson went much deeper than the Darren Wilson incident. Once that happened and the police force there was investigated, it was revealed that there was an ongoing problem with racism within the force. This incident just brought it to the boiling point no matter if this particular incident was justified or not.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Chanting about dead cops is bad and wrong.

 

But you can't trot that out to neutralize the very real and alarming disparity in how black people are treated in America. That's what Fox News does, and Black Lives Matter over-reaction is no way an equal counterbalance to the problem at hand.

 

If you're saying Donald Trump has succeeded by feeding racial tensions, that's a pretty good reason not to vote for him, right?

[BigRedBuster]

Another thing about the unemployment rate/underemployment rate/labor participation rate....etc.

 

I know a lot of people personally who back in 2006, they were working full time and not even questioning if they were going to retire. Then, the bottom fell out. Companies had to down size their work forces to survive. Many of these companies offered their older workers (late 50s early 60s) early retirement packages and those workers jumped on it.

So, not only do you have the baby boomers who are retiring at a very fast pace, but you then have a large number of early retirees that unexpectedly ended up on the other side of the participation rate but are perfectly happy doing so. Some of these people still work but maybe part time...etc which would add to the "underemployed" statistic.

 

Then...yes...you had some people who went back to college full time. Hey....if there isn't a job, I might as well be educating myself so when it all turns around, I'll be ready.

 

The labor participation rate is at "historic lows". What exactly does that mean? It's an alarming word when heard. It obviously must be a horrible situation if a stat is at "historic lows". Well, in reality, this stat means it's at the same level as 1978. Before that, it was much lower. So, yes...it could be better. But, without knowing more about what is going into the stat, I'm not going to base my voting for office on just a statistic.

[knapplc]

I haven't been paying much attention to the polls because we aren't even at the conventions yet, but 538 keeps pounding my Twitter timeline withe poll stuff, so I checked it out.

According to this poll of polls, Clinton leads Trump by about five percentage points and 538 says this seems likely to be accurate. Even Fox News and Rasmussen Reports, the only two pollsters to have Trump ahead of Clinton at any time, both show Trump now trailing.

[Whistlebritches]

I haven't been paying much attention to the polls because we aren't even at the conventions yet, but 538 keeps pounding my Twitter timeline withe poll stuff, so I checked it out.

 

According to this poll of polls, Clinton leads Trump by about five percentage points and 538 says this seems likely to be accurate. Even Fox News and Rasmussen Reports, the only two pollsters to have Trump ahead of Clinton at any time, both show Trump now trailing.

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next couple weeks as the Bernie voters decide what to do.

[zoogs]

Some of them might vote for Trump:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/09/anarchists-for-donald-trump-let-the-empire-burn.html

 

Good luck with starting that movement -- they lost me long ago.

[BigRedBuster]

Some of them might vote for Trump:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/09/anarchists-for-donald-trump-let-the-empire-burn.html

 

Good luck with starting that movement -- they lost me long ago.

Wow.....interesting.....

 

What’s needed now in American politics is consternation, confusion, dissension, disorder, chaos — and crisis, with possible resolution — and a Trump presidency is the best chance for this true progress. This is a politics of arson. I’d rather see the empire burn to the ground under Trump, opening up at least the possibility of radical change, than cruise on autopilot under Clinton.

 

I honestly can't figure out someone with this type of hatred towards our country and government unless they have just bathed themselves in propaganda.

[Red Five]

I haven't been paying much attention to the polls because we aren't even at the conventions yet, but 538 keeps pounding my Twitter timeline withe poll stuff, so I checked it out.

 

According to this poll of polls, Clinton leads Trump by about five percentage points and 538 says this seems likely to be accurate. Even Fox News and Rasmussen Reports, the only two pollsters to have Trump ahead of Clinton at any time, both show Trump now trailing.

 

Its easy to spot when the Mexican judge kerfuffle started...

[zoogs]

I honestly can't figure out someone with this type of hatred towards our country and government unless they have just bathed themselves in propaganda.

I don't think it's hate. I think it's cynicism. I can sort of understand it; things aren't perfect, there's a feeling that we have little individual influence over changing that, so why not blow things up and watch what happens?

 

...I'm kind of on the other side there, though. That's a little too counter-intuitive to me. Sure, I think we could survive the tumult, and maybe there's an argument that long term there are positive changes to either come or get accelerated by the process. You know, out of the ashes of a forest fire springs life anew. But clearly, I think, let's avoid the forest fire if we can ...

[funhusker]

 

I honestly can't figure out someone with this type of hatred towards our country and government unless they have just bathed themselves in propaganda.

I don't think it's hate. I think it's cynicism. I can sort of understand it; things aren't perfect, there's a feeling that we have little individual influence over changing that, so why not blow things up and watch what happens?

 

...I'm kind of on the other side there, though. That's a little too counter-intuitive to me. Sure, I think we could survive the tumult, and maybe there's an argument that long term there are positive changes to either come or get accelerated by the process. You know, out of the ashes of a forest fire springs life anew. But clearly, I think, let's avoid the forest fire if we can ...

 

A controlled burn is one thing. Throwing smoldering cigarette butts in all directions surrounding a Boy Scout Camp is another.